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Old 11-14-2011, 06:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Wanted: Airtronic's CNG/LPG Controller - P/n 8690

Really want to convert my 83 Camaro to run on LPG.

But to pass the BAR, with a C.A.R.B. approved system, I have to have the "Computer Support I" control module to go with the system.

Generally was used with the IMPCO 425-mixer LPG conversion.

Airtronic's Part# 8690.

Might find it in a junyard on older ('80s) GM Fleet vehicles, or a random post on CL or ebay.

The rest of the conversion parts are easy to find, but I won't get it to pass the Referee Station without it. I'm not goign scrounge up the other parts until I find this one.

Let me know if you see anything.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Setup a dual fuel where it can be installed and removed quickly, no more BAR whatever that is.

Anyway is LPG actually less than gasoline on an Gas equiv basis?

If so how do you get it at wholesale?
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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BAR is Bureau of Automotive Repair. They run the Referee stations in CA for engines swaps, imported vehicles, major conversions, etc.


Been doing quite a bit of research and there are several factors to consider when swapping to LPG.

There are both pros & cons to converting to propane; But in my estimation, more pros than cons.

Firstly, Dual-fuel system are to much of a compromise and generally less efficient than an LPG only conversion. I can also bump up the compression higher with LPG than gasoline (which is really easy to do on a SBC).

Second... I am converting a Carbureted vehicle. Not an EFI vehicle.
Modern Fuel injection has tweaked out as much efficiency as feasible, and therefore the energy capacity of the fuel would be the main variable. So a propane conversion would see about a 5-10% loss of energy and therefore mileage.

A carbureted vehicle however, is rearly tuned for peak efficiency. Carburetors can be very complicated and Most owners just don't know how to maintain them properly. (Some mechanics don't either).
Since a propane system is so much simpler and easier to tune, your likely to get just as good, if not better efficiency than gasoline on a carburetor.

Some people claim their Carb'd vehicles get better mileage running LPG than they did on gas (although not drastic). SO... a LPG conversion makes total sense, if you can get LPG at a reasonable proce.

So... where to get fuel...
Yes! Propane is ABSOLUTELY much cheaper than gasoline. By as much at 30% cheaper!!! However, where you get it is the key. Any ol' mom and pop shop, or typically fueling station that sells LPG, is not necessarily selling it at Automotive rates. It could be $3, $4, or $5 a gallon (in US). Just depends... They're just not set up for mass distribution.
SO... you got to a dealer that IS set up for mass distribution. Typically a propane-only dealer, such as Suburban Propane, Amerigas, etc. Not all sell at automotive rates though. You can find out where with an online search.

So what kind of rates are we talking?
Cheapest gasoline (regular) here right now is $3.75/gal (regular).
The local Suburban Propane that sells "autogas," sell's it for about $2.50/gal.

A fill-up that used to cost me $55, now would only cost me $36. And I fill up AT LEAST once a week.
I could go from 20mpg gasoline, to 13mpg LPG, and not be at a loss (except for conversion cost). But since potential loss is not more than 5-10%, the benefit is still there.

Same or better mileage. Same or better power. Not a bad deal... (but as mentioned. FI won't see as big a benefit, unless you really rack up the miles).

You just have to know where to get LPG ahead of time. Fortunately my miles are all local, so I'll be able to fill up at the same place (during regular business hours however).
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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By the way... I DID find an 8690 controller from a CA supplier. New Old stock! Never been used (has been sitting on a shelf for over a decade)
Now, it's only a matter if I can find another one cheaper.

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Old 11-17-2011, 02:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
Second... I am converting a Carbureted vehicle. Not an EFI vehicle.
Modern Fuel injection has tweaked out as much efficiency as feasible, and therefore the energy capacity of the fuel would be the main variable. So a propane conversion would see about a 5-10% loss of energy and therefore mileage.

So... where to get fuel...
Yes! Propane is ABSOLUTELY much cheaper than gasoline. By as much at 30% cheaper!!! However, where you get it is the key. Any ol' mom and pop shop, or typically fueling station that sells LPG, is not necessarily selling it at Automotive rates. It could be $3, $4, or $5 a gallon (in US). Just depends... They're just not set up for mass distribution.
SO... you got to a dealer that IS set up for mass distribution. Typically a propane-only dealer, such as Suburban Propane, Amerigas, etc. Not all sell at automotive rates though. You can find out where with an online search.

So what kind of rates are we talking?
Cheapest gasoline (regular) here right now is $3.75/gal (regular).
The local Suburban Propane that sells "autogas," sell's it for about $2.50/gal.

Same or better mileage. Same or better power. Not a bad deal... (but as mentioned. FI won't see as big a benefit, unless you really rack up the miles).

You just have to know where to get LPG ahead of time. Fortunately my miles are all local, so I'll be able to fill up at the same place (during regular business hours however).
Ah, only in your case, I see. I was looking at a diesel motor coach but propane costs the same or more to operate than just off of the diesel fuel. However if one could purchase propane at the wholesale cost which typically hovers in the $1.30-$1.75 area it would make sense, no idea how to do that.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Got some even better news!!

My car (83 camaro) is not ODB (OBD-I is 1988 & Up until OBD-2 came out).
SOOO... No controller or computer is required (except what the car already has).

So I don't need it! (good thing I hadn't bought it yet! It was over $350!!)

All I need is an Impco 425 mixer, Model E or L regulator/vaoorizer, fuel control valve, and fuel tanks & lines. Might be able to do this whole thing for less that $500 bucks!
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I thought it kind of odd that the government would require a conversion newer than the year of the car

I have a 1970 subaru 360, I wonder how much effort would be needed to convert to propane? Its fully mechanical so I doubt I would need much of anything.

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