Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-23-2022, 07:52 AM   #31 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,170

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

300k Sequoia 4WD - '01 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
90 day: 20.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 352
Thanked 265 Times in 212 Posts
Talos have you tried header air for keeping warm in the winter? I really don't believe in EGR or warm air having more of a benefit over keeping a prius warmer so it can run like a normal corolla would without having to have the engine on 24/7 like a corolla would.

I think manufacturers dyno their cars at 77F so I usually just aim for around this temp for winter air for my car. If you go too crazy I wouldn't want to deal with the horsepower loss.

Also, WAI for me is just helpful for around town. The car does fine at steady state, but that can be a very small percentage of my driving a lot of the time.

__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-26-2022, 12:51 PM   #32 (permalink)
Righteous Imaginarian
 
Talos Woten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Aliquippa PA
Posts: 107

Champrius v3.2 - '09 Toyota Prius
90 day: 58.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 103 Times in 53 Posts
Exclamation Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic View Post
Here's the exhaust next to the number plate on an early Lotus Europa:
(my project car if I ever get the damn Anglia sold)


But it was moved to the more conventional spot in later models.
So the second version of the boat-tail that I did had the exhaust moved to be at the end just like this. Not only did I reason similarly (the low pressure would help suction) but also that the hotter air might actually provide slight thrust. We can show that, aerodynamically, that's the optimal placement for an exhaust.

Unfortunately, from an engineering standpoint, it's crap. What I didn't know at the time was that exhaust fumes contain a crapton of water vapor (I later realized from the combustion, duh). That water pooled in the pipe where it bent upward, corroded it, busted it, and then filled the rear tail with hot gas. Which was of course as airtight as I could make it.

Oh, but it gets better. I actually discovered this pretty early, and if I were at home I could have fixed things promptly. But I found this out while on a trip in Alaska. So I was 400 miles from nowhere and 2800 miles from home. While I limped home the exhaust melted my rear bumper, cracked all the plastic on the tail, fused all the wiring, and destroyed all the electronics. And that was *after* I cut open half the tail to let the fumes out.

I have since discovered that regulations clearly state that the exhaust pipe needs to be at least level with the ground, and they recommend having a 30 degree down kink with a slight grade downward afterward. So the only way to get the exhaust to come out mid-level on the car would be to raise the entire muffler assembly. That would almost certainly impact performance worse that the gains of having the exhaust in a better spot.
__________________
Currently building Champrius 4.0! Follow starting here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CeeL6xyFp-k/

and ask in depth questions here:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post669277

The goal is 70 mpg this time around.

Stats from Champrius v3.2:
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Talos Woten For This Useful Post:
Piwoslaw (11-27-2022)
Old 11-26-2022, 01:16 PM   #33 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,995

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,061
Thanked 552 Times in 441 Posts
I think ram air is over rated. I once calculated how fast I'd have to go to make up for the thinner air at my high altitude. I figured out I'd have to go about 400mph to make it work! I believe I calculated that at 12,000ft above sea level. No wonder airplanes ususally use turbochargers or superchargers to make up for lost air density instead of ram air intakes.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2022, 06:19 PM   #34 (permalink)
DieselMiser
 
ConnClark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Richland,WA
Posts: 985

Das Schlepper Frog - '85 Mercedes Benz 300SD
90 day: 23.23 mpg (US)

Gentoo320 - '04 Mercedes C320 4Matic
90 day: 22.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 46
Thanked 231 Times in 160 Posts
Other than faster engine warmup WAI are a waste of time for fuel savings. They just increase energy lost to the cooling system and increase polution.

Ram air on a gasoline engine are of no use for fuel savings. They can provide a small bump in power though. On a diesel they will provide a benefit in both power and performance.

At sealevel 70 degrees F and 70mph you can get a theoretical maximum of 0.09 psi of boost.

Ram Air Calculator
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2022, 06:39 PM   #35 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,995

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,061
Thanked 552 Times in 441 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark View Post
Other than faster engine warmup WAI are a waste of time for fuel savings. They just increase energy lost to the cooling system and increase polution.

Ram air on a gasoline engine are of no use for fuel savings. They can provide a small bump in power though. On a diesel they will provide a benefit in both power and performance.

At sealevel 70 degrees F and 70mph you can get a theoretical maximum of 0.09 psi of boost.

Ram Air Calculator
According to that Ram Calculator I'd have to go more than 400mph to make up for the lost air density at my altitudes...

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com