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Old 09-04-2008, 03:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Weight of Metro 1 ltr and tranny or other?

Looking for small light motor/tranny for fwd or possibly mid engined configuration. I designed a street legal d series single seater for performance but I seem to be leaning more towards an even more efficient smaller drivetrain and shaped something like a gravity racer. The hardest part might be finding a tire to use. Sort of a bicycle/motorcycle tire size but crossed with a car tire like a formula v.
This has been bouncing around in my head for quite a while. I'm thinking it would be tear drop/Aptera shaped/crossed with a formula car, extremely light and small. Space frame with a plastic/composite/aluminum body and a cockpit type roof. Maybe 40-42" high.
Any feedback is welcome.

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Old 09-04-2008, 03:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have read somewhere that the 1 liter 3 cyl Geo motor is about 100 lbs cmplete and the tranny is about 60?
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Engine is less than 100 LBS complete and I think the trans is exactly 60 lbs like ATaylorRacing stated.

Would Metro 12" wheels and tires work on your setup?
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
Engine is less than 100 LBS complete and I think the trans is exactly 60 lbs like ATaylorRacing stated.

Would Metro 12" wheels and tires work on your setup?
That's about 120 lbs. less than a d series! The original design was about 750-800 lbs. and I was thinking about 200 lbs. less on this little guy. Another 80 lbs less on the frame and unsprung stuff might be possible.
A quick check on Tirerack shows the 12" tires weigh around 11 or 12 pounds so a wheel/tire combination of 20 lbs should be easilly doable. That's another 40 lbs. less. Finding the right tire is the first step in the design so all possibilities would have to be checked.
Oh, would the Metro lump be usable in a midengined configuration?
Thanks.

Last edited by Hasbro; 09-05-2008 at 12:38 AM..
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What is a "d series single seater"? A race car? Street legal? Check with your state DMV on the rules for home built vehicles. You might have to pass emissions testing based on the year of your engine. Another engine option is the air cooled VW boxer moter with transaxle. Light and compact. Tons of performance parts. Every gear ratio available that you could think of. Stone simple with lots of pre-EPA engine cases around.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrooper View Post
What is a "d series single seater"? A race car? Street legal? Check with your state DMV on the rules for home built vehicles. You might have to pass emissions testing based on the year of your engine. Another engine option is the air cooled VW boxer moter with transaxle. Light and compact. Tons of performance parts. Every gear ratio available that you could think of. Stone simple with lots of pre-EPA engine cases around.
D series is a Honda motor series, light, durable, efficient. Arizona is pretty good about home builts and I would build around their guidelines. Yeah, the VW is a consideration although I am not a big fan due to there being more modern and efficient sources. But it would simplify things. The Formula V has been a part of this gestation. Thanks.

I'm sort of thinking about a car in between these two:

Volkswagon 1 litre, 200 mpg:


Gravity racer:

Last edited by Hasbro; 09-05-2008 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It might be easier to use a bike engine and register it as a motorcycle. Light and compact and you can't get any simpler than chain or belt drive. No emissions complications.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If it has 4 wheels, wouldn't you have to register it as a car - regardless of if it had a motorcycle engine in it ?

And I don't see why you couldn't use the Metro engine in a mid engine car .... it would put the exhaust manifold and spark plugs between the engine and the vehicle cab/firewall, but that shouldn't be too much of a hardship.

This sounds like a fun project !

Here's a couple of links to the Ariel Atom - it uses a Honda Civic engine (supercharged ) in a mid-engine configuration. I'm sure its not very fuel efficient but damn it looks fun !!

Wikipedia - Ariel Atom



Edit: Youtube link didn't work for me, here it is for cut and paste:
you tube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrooper View Post
It might be easier to use a bike engine and register it as a motorcycle. Light and compact and you can't get any simpler than chain or belt drive. No emissions complications.
It would be much easier but I'm not sure they would be as efficient? and they certainly don't last as long. A small modern car motor should go 250-300k easily with such a light car.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 O'Clock Charlie View Post
If it has 4 wheels, wouldn't you have to register it as a car - regardless of if it had a motorcycle engine in it ?

And I don't see why you couldn't use the Metro engine in a mid engine car .... it would put the exhaust manifold and spark plugs between the engine and the vehicle cab/firewall, but that shouldn't be too much of a hardship.

This sounds like a fun project !

Here's a couple of links to the Ariel Atom - it uses a Honda Civic engine (supercharged ) in a mid-engine configuration. I'm sure its not very fuel efficient but damn it looks fun !!

Wikipedia - Ariel Atom

Registering it as a car is not a problem.
The Ariel is a cool car. A well built Locost such as Keith Tanners will spank it for about 40 grand less. I have designed an 800 lb. car that would have about 1.3 g cornering and about 8 lbs/1 hp but this time I'm trying to create an even lighter fe car. It would still handle quite well just due to the lower weight.

Appreciate everyone's input.

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