What all does an engine swap entail?
 

Hello, I've been on this website several times as just a guest. But to day I decided that I really like this community and am excited to see what it has to offer. Anyways, I drive a 1994 1500 silverado edition suburban 4x4..:turtle: It's just about as in-efficient a vehicle as anyone has ever seen. The 5.7L 350 is bigger than most modern pickup engines these days. However I am not willing to give up this suburban. And I have done a few minor thing to help with efficiency. Bought highway tires,cold air intake, reduced back pressure exhaust, ect. However one day I stumbled across a website offering a kit which would allow me to put a smaller isuzu diesil engine into the suburban while keeping my stock transmission and transfer case. The engine in my suburban has 225k and is having more issues all the time. I have had trouble finding the 4BD2TC engine that I would need for this swap. I just really need some help and insure from people who better understand the fundementals of swapping an engine. And I realize that this engine is smaller therefore I lose power and acceleration. I just think it would be more economical. And very unique. Any and all help or even your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Url
 

www .isuzudieselswapper. com

Here is the URL of the conversion kits website.

What's your mileage goal, is it achievable with a GM 6.2 or 6.5. 6.5 in a 94 Tahoe I owned pretty much always averaged 18 driving it on intersate most of the time. No doubt it beat 20 just by keeping speed down to 55.

Whats wrong with a fresh 6.5L?
It will drop right in place of that 350.

I don't really have a definitive goal in mind for the mileage, however the 6.2 is a very large engine compared to the 3.9. I understand that putting another bolt in gm engine would be much simpler. However I am interested in this Isuzu diesel conversion for the sake of longevity. And to have something that not many people have. I realize that the cost of the diesel conversion will be expensive but I'm thinking that this would be a better long term solution and a fun project. And I honestly do think that the gas prices will continue to rise. And while diesel prices have stayed pretty much the same I believe that even though diesel does cost more per gallon the efficiency of this small engine will make it worth it.

If you have an automatic tranny, you will probably need a tranny controller.
Most folks that swap small diesels into trucks use manual transmissions because there is no wiring to worry about. The diesel should have no problem hauling you around. Have you thought about a Cummins 4BT? Those are strong and get great mileage. I have been wanting one for a while and even called the company looking for more info. I figured on about 40 MPG as a minimum.

Small diesels use almost no fuel. I think most small non turbo diesels use about 2-2.5 gallons per hour when wide open and full load. This would give you around 30 mpg at 60 mph IF you were working that engine to it's limit. MOst of the time you are at less than half load, so the mileage would be 40-50 mpg. This is because the GPH would drop to about 1-1.5.

Deutz is another one to look at. Even john deere or caterpillar. They all make good diesels. My brother had an isuzu diesel and hated it. The design was bad to start with and it leaked everything. Hope this helps.

NEVER RUN ONE OUT OF FUEL!!!! Injector pumps cost $$$$!

4BT swaps Isuzu 4BD1T/2T:thumbup:

kennedy adapters will have an adapter kit for pretty much anything you can imagine. they have a good website.

you should have a 4l60e transmission in your suburban. it is computer controlled. the 700r4 is the same transmission, older, which was not computer controlled. there are lots of 700r4's out there.

All that being said, there is a BIG difference in price between diesel fuel and gas. I don't know you will really save that much money.

what kind of mileage are you getting now? You should be seeing 18 or so on the road.

old chevy TBI's are FAMOUS for the ignition timing becoming retarded over time due to timing chain stretch. double check your ignition timing.

An engine swap under your belt makes you a bona fide hot-rodder.

A 6.2 or 6.5 will be an easier swap than a 4BT3.9, but the latter may be more satisfactory in the long run.

Having 300,000 miles with a 6.2 I recommend that if you have the sand for an engine swap, go whole hog and do a transmission swap. diesels are so right with manuals and so wrong with automatics. My 6.2 destroyed seven automatics including two TH400s. Not just "it won't shift" but spectacular failures scattering burnt ATF and blue-colored parts down the road. GM offered a NV4500 in thiose trucks about that time so a five-speed should bolt right up to a 6.2 or 6.5.

There is a whole website devoted to 4BT3.9 swaps.

Well I'm not sure but i do think that I have a 700r4 and not the 4L60E, I might be entirely wrong. I average about 14 on the highway going about 60. My reason for wanting to swap with the Isuzu is because the Isuzu from what i have read is a very good and strong and efficient reliable engine that is easy to maintain and even rebuild. Not only that but there is a kit that I mentioned at the begging of this thread for coupling this engine to my existing transmission. I really would like to keep my existing transmission because it is in very good condition for its age and I also want to keep my 4X4 transfer case. The only thing that want to replace is the engine. Not my entire drive-traine. I realize that I will need a transmission controller. What i really want to know is how difficult will this truly be. I know it requires much more than just attaching the engine to my transmission. I know that custom engine mounts must be fabricated. Battery must be relocated. But what am i not thinking of that i need to prepare for? Do I need to replace my fuel pump and fuel lines for ones meant for diesel? What about my power steering pump and Freon lines? Or even the new alternator? Will i be able to use the alt that was meant to be used with the engine or will i have to fab brackets and use the old one that i have now? What about the a.c. compressor? How will my instrument panel work with this different engine? and finally what problems haven't i mentioned here that you think will be an issue for me when i attempt this swap?

there is a fuel pump in the tank you will have to remove and replace with rubber line and sinker.....
you have to figure out how to mound the chevy power steering pump and AC. And the chevy alternator is 100 amp or more, super cheap, so pretty hard to not use it. But the pulleys are all serpentine belt - don't know what kind of belt the diesel is.

what rpm will the diesel turn? If not 2400 or so, you are going to have limited top speed.

i'm pretty sure the 94 is a 4l60e.

Well the 4BD2TC has a red-line of 3,500 which actually even with my gas 350 i try not to go over 2,500 engine rpm unless I'm merging onto the highway or something so even though my gas 350 red-lines at about 5k I never go over 3k so it's not like the average engine rpm's are drastically changing. I just don't completely understand what I need the transmission controller for? Is it for re-assigning the shift points lower? Or what exactly is that for? Do you think i will have clearance issues with my steering column?

the 4l60e is computer controlled. this means the computer sets the shift points by reading RPM, TPS, and vehicle speed.

without the computer the transmission start in second or third gear and stays there.

if you are ambitious, you can manually shift the transmission by manually controlling the shift solenoids.

Does that mean I would have to push buttons on the transmission controller all the time to be able to up shift and down shift? Just as if I was driving a manual? Or with the help of the transmission controller could I just re-set the shift
Points to correspond with the new engine.

that means without the complete harness, stock engine, stock engine ECU, and everything else, you would need to setup some sort of set of electronic switches to manually shift gears.

There are aftermarket transmission controllers out there - here is one

Transmission Controller, Transmission Computer, Stand-Alone Computer, Monster Transmission, 4l60e computer, 4l80e computer, 4r100 computer, 4r70w computer, 4l85e computer, 4l65e computer, aode computer, e4od computer, 4l60e controller, 4l80e controll

there are probably other options. it would not be very hard to make one with a an arduino but I don't know how.

Inputs are RPM, Throttle position, and mph.
Outputs are power or ground to two solenoids for shifting and a third control for torque converter lockup.

Any swap is complicated but possible. I built a crew cab on a Suburban chassis and used a 6.5 with a manual pump and a 700-r4 so I do not have a computer of any kind. If you want to use GM stuff it is possible to use a Duramax and an Allison automatic from a 01+ pickup. I have a friend here in town that did that swap to a 98 Chevy pickup.

Sounds more and more like a PITA.
Tons of work to get the roughly the same peak torque as the 350 but only around half the horse power.

Yes but my 6.5 gets 11 mpg towing my 35' travel trailer. I never got more than 7 mpg towing the same trailer with a 350.

There are more efficient turbos out there for the 6.5L.
A more efficient turbo and turbo set up will give better milage and power all around.
The OE turbo set up that is on most of the 6.5Ls is not that great, its an undersized turbo on fairly restrictive exhaust plumbing.

But I don't want an engine that big, I dont want a fullsized big V8 dura max. I certainly don't want the allison and the have to replace my entire drivetrain! I want to make it as non invasive as possible. But I do understand that there is some fabrication in order putting that Isuzu diesil in my engine bay. I really want to keep the transmission. Even if it means a headache with the controller. I want to keep this as simplistic as I can while still getting what I want. I want this small diesil because it will save money on fuel. I realize I will lose power. However I don't use this thing for hauling anything besides people. I just want to be able to drive down the highway going 60 and Not be able to watch my gas gauge go down. I think a small I4 turbo diesil would do me just fine.

Sounds like you want a 6.5L

the 6.5 is worth more now then it ever was before.

scrap metal is at an all time high.

The 6.5 is much to large for this application. I need something small and efficient for moving me and other people. I really don't want a big old Detroit.. I really think the 3.9 is in my best interest. Even though it will cost more in the beginning.

Well good luck with that.
Do you have the equipment required to make your own brackets?
If you cant build your own brackets and most of your adaptors you can forget about it being cost effective.

If you have a 6.5 with a DB4 serries electronicly controlled pump and GMx serries turbo I would say you are not far off.
I picked the best OE 6.2/6.5L parts and aftermarket parts from 1982-now to build what I have and it goes pretty nice.

Honestly I don't have the nessary equipment to fabricate all the nessary brackets and adapters myself. However my uncle had a machine shop that I could use. But I do belive you are right, would the 6.5 or the 6.2 be a direct bolt in engine? I mean being a diesel I would have to mod the fuel delivery system. But would the engine drop right in and bolt on to my 4l60e and work with it without a transmission controller? I everything would mount up and work right away? Just throw the 6.5 in?

No. But you can find a used suburban with the 6.5 for probably 1500 bucks.

if I wanted such a thing I'd look for a 93 - newer body style with the marginally better engine (older).

Alright I've been looking around a lot on the internet today and i have come to find out that I would prefer to use the 6.2 instead of the 6.5 because its naturally aspirated and will directly bolt onto my 4L60e, however the 6.2 it totally mechanical and so I would still need some kind of transmission controller.

Differences between gas & diesel 700r4's [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

I read this and it seems to have mixed opinions.. I just had a reality check. There is no way I could afford the Isuzu swap at this point however something that is direct bolt on and that all I would have to jack with is the electronics of the transmission shift points ect, Seems much more do-able. Even if it wasn't meant for the 4L60e the 700r4 isn't that different. So it truly does seem much more simple and a lot more practical than swapping in an Isuzu.

Have you consided just downsizing the gas to 4.3 v6. All the accesories will fit, I would think it would pick up some MPG, could even make a FFV out of it.

4.3L vs 350 all else the same you get a small improvement.

Yes, the SBC, BBC and 6.2/6.5L share the same motor mount locations and transmission bolt pattern.

Not as much as you would think, ethere way you have to convert it to go diesel. You can get a fuel tank unit for a diesel or an older carbed truck.

You might need a transmission controler I think the gas engines ECU controls both the engine and the transmission.
Yes you may need an adaptor or different torque converter to go from an older non-L460E engine to a L460E transmission. Other wise the trans and bell housing will bolt right up.
It would be easier to put a TH700R4 in there, I am not sure of all the details when mateing an older engine to newer trans.
TH700R4 transmissions are cheap.
Drive shafts are the same between TH700 and L460E.

The 6.2/6.5 are so popular because you can run both of them N/A or turbocharged, they can be electronicly controlled or mechanical.

I think I have the best mix of 1982-2000 6.2 and 6.5 parts for a N/A engine.
I can give you a break down.
Right now the only part I would like to have different is a newer style mechanical injector pump. I can change that when ever.
I had one of the best 6.2L engines for fuel economy and will tell all.

Wow. This suddenly sounds much simpler than I'd first imagined. The transmission doesnt sound like that big of an issue. And please. I would love to know all the details of a N/A 6.2 fuel efficiency engine build. How hard would it be to come by a 6.2? In decent condition. I live in Texas near san antoino. How much do you think it would cost to buy a decent running one and then all the mods needed for efficency?

so the trans bolt pattern is the same.
for a small block GM 350 and the 6.2/6.5L diesels :confused:



3,500 rpms is quite high for a 4BD or 4BT engine

2,800ish rpms is commonly red line for these engines.
so re-gearing to 3.55/3.08 range would be needed to turn mpg friendly rpms at 60 mph


i know the 4BD and 4BT model is around 750lbs + trans how does that compare to the 6.2L 6.5L?

To get the best MPGs you need a 2wd, OD transmission like the L460E or TH700 and 3.08 or taller gears.

Build a ram air intake like this:
11 inches of water, no more. - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

And convert to electric fans.
Turn up the injector pump.
Put on 31 inch tires.

The engine you get will likely be a "C-code", put a duel plane "J-code" intake manifold on.

And run at least 8 degrees of advance.

A free flowing forward of the rear axel dump exhaust too if you can. I didn't see a big mpg boost from this but it was part of my 25mpg+ setup.

Yes, SBC, BBC, I6, 4.3L, LS serries, duramax, 6.2/6.5L diesel all share the same bolt pattern. I know there are more those are just the ones I am aware of. There are some spacing differences between the flexplate and torque converter when going from a old vs new style trans.
Drive shafts between TH700, TH200, L460E and T56 are all the same.
Also 4L80E and TH400 and possibly 6L80E are the same drive shaft.


The DB2 serries mechanical pump is limited to 4400RPMs.
I have ran my 6.5L into the speed limiter, it screams.
Electronic DB4 (which you will avoid at all costs) are limited to 3400-3600RPMs.


The 6.5 is close to the same weight as a small block chevy.
The SBC with TH700/4L60E would be around 600lb.
The 6.5L with transmission would be under 750lb.

If you want to lose several hundred pounds:
remove the rear seat
Remove the spare
Do a lithium battery replacement: DIY: BYOB, for more power, a lot less weight - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

ummm, NO.

sbc is about 600 pounds with exhaust and iron intake, wet. Drop that to

trans is about 170 pounds with TC.

aluminum headed 5.3 is about 100 pounds lighter.

6.5 weight appears to be 750 complete.

Keep in mind the 4l60e won't hold up to the 6.5 - it requires the 4l80e which is another 100 pounds heaiver yet.

So, 6.5 with 4l80e is only about 1000 pounds. but don't forget to upgrade the rear differential and driveline and radiator and fan. all require bigger ones for the diesel.

Gm built thousands of 6.2 powered 1/2 ton truck, Blazers, and burbs. The reason my 1 ton 6.5 na only gets 17mpg is because it has 4.56 gears for trailer towing. I had a stone stock light duty 3/4 ton 6.2 2wd pickup w/ 4.10 gears that got 21 mpg all day long.

My 6.5 has a TH700R4 which is a mechanically controlled 4L60E.
Works fine.
So no you don't have to have a 4L80E.

Most turbo 6.5L engines have the TH400 or 4L80E.
My 6.5L has a standard half ton 10 bolt rearend.
Has worked fine for well over 250 thousand miles.

An all cast iron 350 weighs about 600lb.
That 6.5L cant weigh more than 700.
The turbo and turbo manifolds would add at least another 50lb, so is 750lb with or with out the turbo?

So with the 6.2 I wouldn't have to mess with any of my transfer case or differentials or their gearing correct? I could leave that all stock and have to preform minor adjustments to the transmission to be able to accept the 6.2? Like I could keep my stock radiator, instrument panel, ac comp, alt freion lines. Everything will bolt right on? Or I need the parts made for that engine? Will that engine literally bolt right into the same engine mounts that my 350 is in now? I wouldnt have to adjust anything? My driverraine or engine? No spacing issues no moving anything?

you have to change the brake booster to hydro, or figure out a big vacuum pump.
you have to redo the freon lines, IF you can find a 6.2 with an AC compressor.
new radiator.
you will have to wire up a glowplug system, which is actually pretty easy.

I do not know about the transmission - doesn't the diesel require a special torque converter?

Again, if he has a 4l60E he is screwed. If he has the 700r4 it would be easier.

And a BIG question - will it pass emissions inspection???? At the least he will have to unhook the computer or cut the check engine light.

I'd start keeping an eye out for a donor vehicle. 6.2 with 700r4 would be the easiest (no electronics)

1984 chevy 2500 van

122k & $1000

Not close to you but something like that would work, would have to change the tailshaft to match you xfer case but not a big deal.

So where exactly would i find the flexplate and torque converter that i need for going from the 700r4 to the 4l60e? Is there a kit online that i can use or something? Because i do have the 4l60e. Emissions aren't an issue. I live in texas in a small town. Most everyone runs straight piped. So emssions are not an issue. But I would really like to keep my transmission! i have read on the internet that they are better and stronger than their mechanical cousins.And from what i understand because i have a tbi 350 the computer controlls both the engine and transmission. So technically would the check engine light even work anymore? Because the only computer equipment would be the trans controller right?