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Old 11-07-2010, 07:49 AM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by skyl4rk View Post
Would you recommend a F650 CS for long distance touring? I am trying to decide what bike to get and would like a relatively lightweight bike but it still needs to do 2-up long distance tours.
I think similarly to kawboyCAFE - my main concern is not power. In this respect, of course a 650cc single behaves differently 2-up than with one rider, but it doesn't bother me at all. I also had several hundred km long trips with a 250 (Ciliegia, Hyosung GV250, log also included), and I was fine with it.

So my advice is that you should try one for riding comfort. My position is upright - with pretty folded legs. The most I have ever ridden without stopping is ~300km (and ~600km one day, there's nice headroom here ), and I had to excercise my legs after 2 hours or so. The same goes for my right wrist, Teresa has quite strong spring in the throttle handle, at least stronger than Ciliegia. Other than that, I had absolutely no problem at all. If you take twisty roads you may won't have even these problems, heading home on a freeway lacks the exercise you'd have on roads with details.

Other thing I'd check the position of the passenger. When I gave a lift to my colleague (a bit taller than me) he complained about the passenger footrests, he had to fold his legs more than I have to and found the position very uncomfortable. OTOH my girlfriend, who is shorter (163cm/5'4"), has much less problem there. I think these can be the limiting factors on any bike you find sufficiently strong for the job.

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Old 11-07-2010, 08:56 AM   #222 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_g View Post
How do cold temps affect mpg? There is more oxygen density in cold air, I think. So, does that make the engine burn cleaner or richer? I have a Teknic jacket with a thermal liner that permits me to ride down into the low 20's for good distances without feeling so much as a hint of cold. But I don't recall it affected my mileage at all. Still 65-70. Now... dropping down to 4,000 ft elevation did take a toll on my mileage. That, and the fact it took place in a city with lots of starts and stops...
AFAIK the engine needs extra fuel when cold, just to keep the right fuel:air ratio, so the shorter the trips (more cold starts) the heavier the effect on FE (FAS - forced auto stop - prolongs warm ups too, so I mostly give up on it when cold). They also say that colder air also denser enough to affect aero drag, and cold rubber has more rolling resistance (this is something I don't understand - why are we inflating them hard if it hurts?). I really don't know the amounts, but it seems that I can't coast as long as I can do in the summer.

Quote:
Do you know if engine rpm plays a role in efficiency? I've heard bikers say it doesn't play a role. But I usually try to keep the rpm's in the sweet spot, figuring the bike has to work harder at either the low or high end of each gear. Not sure what the science is there.
The science would be a proper BSFC diagram which I haven't seen about this particular engine - or any motorcycle engines Anyway, I try to keep my RPMs as low as possible without feeling the engine trying too hard, rewarding me with strange noises. This is somewhere ~2500rpm in 2nd-3rd, less in 1st, a bit more in 4th, and ~3100-3200 when climbing a hill 2-up in 5th. It limits my experiments with DWL [the opposite of P&G on hilly roads] because the speed at 3200rpm (~80km/h, 50mph) is not much slower than my normal cruising (if I do anything like that...)


Quote:
When you say "coasting" do you mean you are turning off the engine on downhill? Or shifting into neutral?
I usually just hold the clutch tight as I hear scary grinding from the gears if I try to shift out of neutral at higher speeds than ~20mph. So I don't shift into neutral unless I'm about to stop.
Sometimes I turn off the engine - when the coasting promises long enough (I know a place nearby where I can coast for 2.2km, and several ones where I stay fast enough for 600-1000m, these are mostly places where I'd slow anyway because of a town or railway crossing). Other than that the engine stays idle (and still turns much less than it would without coasting).


Quote:
I ride my bike consistently pretty hard. I'm a new rider still having a love affair with the power and torque of the bike and haven't settled back into the just cruising mode. The feeling of accelerating up hill is one that is hard to resist.
I think this is the main difference. I must admit though, that Pulse&Glide (I do it pretty much on my commutes on these hilly roads) is another type of 'hard' riding considering engine/transmission wear. Revs are still not high (I usually go up from ~2800 to 3600-4500 in 5th, ~2500 to 3000-3500 in 4th and less if I have to stay in lower gears because of the PSL) but I accelerate all the time when I'm not coasting. Especially uphills - so I use the engine with decent load and have a longer glide after the crest

So I accelerate too - I just try to avoid braking at any cost Braking (including engine brake!) is for unforeseen events (and to stop), I try to anticipate and coast whenever I have to slow down not to waste momentum

When I have extra weight and I don't feel the engine 'too powerful' I use a DWL-y approach lately: I let the bike slow down uphills with constant or even easier throttle, then
a. I accelerate on the other side with the same constant throttle, helped by the gravity, getting momentum for the next hill
b. I 'pulse' right on the crest and glide down.

Unfortunately I can't often gain speed by starting slowly and gliding downhills. Motorcycles are light and have bad aero drag (especially when you sit upright), so pretty steep declines are needed to maintain (or accelerate to) highway speeds. And roads that are steep enough are usually full of sharp turns, so this is where I need some kind of braking

Quote:
BMW recommends a pretty low psi for the Tourence duals. 24 for the front and 28 for the back. Probably because the bike is designed to do some off road. What pressure do you have yours pumped to?
It's ~42psi. Feels a bit harsher but grips even bad roads fine.

Huh it's long, I hope I haven't left too many typos in the text...
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:16 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I know of folks doing cross country rides on 175cc and 250cc bikes to enjoy the trip. My father-in-law just rode his restored antique BMW 250cc from Buffalo, NY to Redman, OR. A young Craig Vetter rode a faired 175cc over the Rockies. Some people ride their bicycles for that matter.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:23 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk View Post
Would you recommend a F650 CS for long distance touring? I am trying to decide what bike to get and would like a relatively lightweight bike but it still needs to do 2-up long distance tours.
I wouldn't reccomend anyting less than a 500cc bike for a 2 up Long Distance run. especially if you are packing any sort of weight. I am speaking in terms of stock power you need the torque to get you moving.

One thing I see missing from this thread with all of these numbers are peoples weight and size that plays a big role in the mileage you get from one experience to another.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:53 AM   #225 (permalink)
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On My 2005 Harley Sportster 883XL I manage a guestimate around 55mpg

Tough to be accurate with no fuel gauge and no real mark to refference a fill point. I am close to putting 2 gallons in when hit the 110-120 mile mark. on the odometer counter. This is around town spirited driving smacking the rev limiter here and there.

Mods done are Screaming eagle pipes and a stock replacement K&N. I needed to let out the idle screw half turn due to running too lean I also swapped out the Bars for a much more narrow look over 6" more narrow. I flipped the mirrors down since pics were taken because they were no use in the upright position. In the underneath position I can see below my arms and are quite usefull I am not a fan of Bar mirrors look





My first Bike was a 2004 Buel Blast No Mods 65-70 +mpg no hypermiling just average riding tuck position over 60mph


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Old 11-09-2010, 12:10 PM   #226 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRABill View Post
I wouldn't reccomend anyting less than a 500cc bike for a 2 up Long Distance run.
The CS is a 650cc single, so it qualifies here
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:24 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvaro84 View Post
The CS is a 650cc single, so it qualifies here
Yup I saw that I as just expressing an opionion that was in the following posts regarding 250cc being up to the challenge of cross country riding maybe for a single, not for a packed down 2 up trip. I Just didn't do a good job making that clear in my post

and No I am not one of those "bigger the Better" Biker dudes Harley guys snicker and call my 883 little to each their own.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:52 AM   #228 (permalink)
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you can tour on anything you want, as long as you know the bikes limits. i am going on a road trip in the spring on my ninja 250, and i know it will do it. but i will be by myself, and not carrying much gear. plus, i will be taking it easy, not in a hurry. but thats just me. touring on a smaller bike might not be for everyone, but it can be pretty fun.

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Old 11-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #229 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawboyCAFE View Post
you can tour on anything you want, as long as you know the bikes limits. i am going on a road trip in the spring on my ninja 250, and i know it will do it. but i will be myself, and not carrying much gear. plus, i will be taking it easy, not in a hurry. but thats just me. touring on a smaller bike might not be for everyone, but it can be pretty fun.
Have a safe Ride... I hope to find time to do a weekend getaway myself next summer. I am not a Big bike person either its just not my thing.

what is the old biker saying:
It doesn't matter what you ride as long as you do.


post some pics of your ride loaded up before your trip I always like to see how people stow their gear
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:31 AM   #230 (permalink)
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I'm still working on getting my Ninja 250 running properly (time issues). As soon as it's done and running, I'll use it on the nicer days in the winter (read: not sleeting or icy. Snow is OK.) as well as all summer.

Since I have to carry a bit of gear for work, I'll more than likely invest in a duffel and some straps, and just carry a backpack for my personal gear.

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