Why are cars sold in other countries so much more fuel efficient than in the US?!

[RedDevil]

No real mountains over here, but it is a small country. There are lots of mountains within a days drive. I've been in the Alps and the Pyrenees. Not yet with the Insight, but I have no doubt that it will cope. The CVT makes sure you can use all the power the engine can produce when needed. Just don't watch the FE readout while doing so

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Even in Brazil there are mountains, Japan too, but the folks is more used to smaller engines. It's basically a cultural feature.

Yep - France (the home of the 2CV, 107, C1, Renault 4 etc.) has mountains, as does Germany (the Beetle, VW Polo, Trabant), Italy (the FIAT 500 + hundreds of others) and even Spain (the SEAT 500/800). We even have a few here.

There is also the difference in the roads network - we have corners

[niky]

Technically, corners would require you to have more power, so you can get back up to the 80 mph you're supposed to maintain on a 30 degree incline while towing your yacht uphill.

Not that any of us out here own yachts...


The weirdest experience I've ever had in mountain crawling was being passed by an old Land Rover with government plates. It was one of those diesel jobs that made something like sixty horses on a good day, and it had on tires that looked like they came with the car when it rolled off the line thirty years ago. I was doing 70, while he was going 80-90. Round the corners, no less. That's probably the only time you'll ever see one of those babies going over 50 mph.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Yep - France (the home of the 2CV, 107, C1, Renault 4 etc.) has mountains, as does Germany (the Beetle, VW Polo, Trabant), Italy (the FIAT 500 + hundreds of others) and even Spain (the SEAT 500/800). We even have a few here.

There is also the difference in the roads network - we have corners

Yes, there are mountains in those places, and steep hills with curves in Britain. That's why people in those places developed cars like Alfa Romeo, Austin Healey, Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche...

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Yes, there are mountains in those places, and steep hills with curves in Britain. That's why people in those places developed cars like Alfa Romeo, Austin Healey, Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche...

Yeah, and we all drive those all the time instead of normal hatchbacks, saloons and estates...

Hang on

Originally Posted by jamesqf

...Austin Healey...

The Sprite handled OK but topped out at about 85 and was screaming at that speed. The 100/3000 was deliberately designed to sell in the US and didn't manage corners that well.

There was a reason why BMC competitions department decided to abandon the 300hp Austin Healey 3000s in favour of the 100hp Mini Cooper S for rallies, and used the MGB/CGT for road racing.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Yes, there are mountains in those places, and steep hills with curves in Britain. That's why people in those places developed cars like Alfa Romeo, Austin Healey, Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche...

..and bikes like Ducati, BMW, Triumph, etc. Twisty mountain roads are a bikers heaven.

[Arragonis]

Bikes aren't cars

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Bikes aren't cars

That's why we need em both
The point was what you use it for. The claim seemed to be that Porsches etc. were made to cope well with mountains. The average motorbike copes even better, due to its good power to weight ratio. To have real fun in the mountains, take a motorbike.

Having said that, the excess power only comes into play when the road allows higher speeds. Any car can climb any paved mountain road in first gear and most of them in second. So where the roads get really twisty the power differences become less significant.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

The average motorbike copes even better, due to its good power to weight ratio.

Going up the mountain - YES.

Going down the mountain where braking power as applied to surface contact area - NO.

Several examples of this come to mind, one where a sports car is pitted against a much faster motorcycle on the track. The motorcycle was ahead until the first turn where rapid deceleration was required.

Sport cars can out brake sport bikes, it's that simple.

[War_Wagon]

We have a mountain or two here. Highway Thru Hell for example. I took the Insight through there once in the summer, with a flat battery pack. Lot of time in second gear. But I'd do it again. My main concern with the 1st gen Insight in the mountains is ground clearance for snow. Plus, I am too paranoid about someone sliding into one. My 1.0L Firefly got me through the mountains during the snow in December a few years ago with no issues, I think as long as you are willing to put your thoughts of economy aside for the trip and be willing to pick the right gear and go higher RPM when the conditions call for it, then a lightweight little car with tall, skinny tires can go pretty much anywhere as safely, or safer than a 6000 pound pickup. Get a little sideways in ice or snow in the mountains in a Firefly and you can correct it, get a little sideways in an F350 and you better know what you are doing or it's going to be a bad day for you.