Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now

Reply  Post New Thread
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2017, 03:37 PM   #101 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Radium Springs, NM
Posts: 465

Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 14.44 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 9.03 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 51.2 mpg (US)

MoonDust for Travel - '19 Chevrolet Bolt LT
90 day: 123.11 mpg (US)

MoonDust 3 with 90% CE - '19 Chevy Bolt LT
90 day: 127.57 mpg (US)

Ecopia IV - '19 Chevy Bolt Lt
90 day: 126.39 mpg (US)

Ecopia IV Trip Log - '19 Chevy Bolt LT
90 day: 121.01 mpg (US)

Rate Rider Chevy Bolt - '19 Chevrolet Bolt LT-2
90 day: 123.16 mpg (US)

Teal Force One 70% - '24 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL
90 day: 98.52 mpg (US)

Teal Force Two 90% - '24 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL
90 day: 105.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 528 Times in 278 Posts
I owned a Honda VX for a while (traded it in because it did not have an AC) and the damn thing worked as advertised. We got 55 mpg routinely and sometimes more. Car drove and ran like a sports car if you got on it.


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

Old 08-29-2017, 01:19 PM   #102 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 48
Thanks: 20
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
The reasons are as follows:
- Combustion stability is too low when running lean (engine knock and/or pre-ignition is caused)
- NOx generation is too high
- Power is decreased
2007 Silverado 1500 2wd flex fuel with active fuel management. 33" Nitto Terra Grappler tires. 2.5" motofab front end leveling kit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 06:04 PM   #103 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
ar5boosted's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 110
Thanks: 8
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
To me, their lean burn engine looks like a direct-injection Engine judging by the diagram.

Originally Posted by ever_green View Post
What you have to do is induce a fulltime open loop behavior and then have the Maf sensor underestimate airflow by reduce Maf scaling.
Any blog write-ups on that ?

Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
This is a lot of work as it requires you to reduce the engine load scale across the board in ecu or else it will think there is less cylinder pressure than actually is and run too much timing (this is just one example).
I was watching this video. They show it being done on a spreadsheet.

https://youtu.be/kBk0KudOVAg after about 4:20

Using pattern-matching algorithms, I'm really confident that this could be done in software with some type of blanket-algorithm. (True, I don't value car engines like I used to :-) )

Translated into young peoples language, "like a facebook bot? or iPhone app?" but I mean some type of spreadsheet macro or script code.

It's a good conversation, so keep going.
2003 Renault Scenic - 30% more power with no loss in fuel economy.
1991 Toyota GT4 - more economical before ST215W engine-swap.
previous: Water-Injected Mitsubishi ~33% improved.
future - probably a Prius

Last edited by ar5boosted; 08-29-2017 at 06:21 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 06:16 PM   #104 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
rmay635703's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,886

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 503
Thanked 865 Times in 652 Posts

NOx can react in a fuel cell to make electricity, I wonder why they don't just do that
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 08:09 PM   #105 (permalink)
Not Doug
Xist's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,215

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.2 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 35.39 mpg (US)

Don't hit me bro - '05 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 30.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,239
Thanked 2,227 Times in 1,718 Posts
RMay, do you have a source for that? I just get stuff about Bloom Box, which does not mention NOx.

Google does not even bother asking "Do you mean box?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2017, 12:10 AM   #106 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by ar5boosted View Post
To me, their lean burn engine looks like a direct-injection Engine judging by the diagram.
The Honda one (HLSI on that diagram) is port-injected. I think part of what drove Honda to develop this was that they could keep using lean-burn after emissions standards kept them out of cars. They have a bunch of 4-stroke lean-burn outboards, for example.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2017, 12:22 AM   #107 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,630
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,641 Times in 1,464 Posts
Even running lean-burn, port-injection is expected to decrease the NOx emissions compared to direct-injection. Particulate matter emissions, which plagues Diesels and has become an issue for spark-ignited direct-injection too, is another reason for some engines to retain port-injection.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 05:19 PM   #108 (permalink)
i should weld
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: A hilly area in Western Canada
Posts: 30
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by cujet View Post
Those who have aftermarket, stand-alone engine management computers have done some interesting things with lean operation on very modern engines.

Lean operation requires more throttle opening, and the throttle by wire can compensate without driver input. Driveability issues are minimized with such setups.

My current "fun" car is a 2004 Turbo S2000 with stand-alone ECU, 8.8/1 compression, 19.5Lbs boost. It does not run lean under light loads, and does not return very good MPG's. (about 20) . My plan is to re-map the ECU for 17/1 operation under light loads. Those that have done this see overall increases to 25 to 27MPG.

It's my understanding that modern direct injection engines have been configured to operate smoothly at much leaner A/F ratio's. And coupled with high compression, can achieve BSFC numbers almost 25% better than the very same engine operated at stoic.

Take a look at the lower picture. That's my 1971 Cessna 177RG. I'm operating it in very lean mode! (GAMI injectors and other tweaks) I'm achieving a solid 25MPG at 125MPH. I promise, there is no tailwind and I'm actually climbing in this pic. What I do is lower the RPM to 1900-2000, pull throttle to 17 inches manifold pressure and lean it to it loses significant power and misfires a touch, then richen it just a touch. I then fiddle with the controls to achieve a bit less than 5 gallons per hour fuel flow. (the gauge is just to the right of my iPad)

Note: in non lean operation, the same speeds consume about 8GPH.

Look at the airspeed indicator, 113MPH at 4500 feet. That's 125 true airspeed. (remember, the higher you go, the lower the airspeed indicator is for a given speed, due to thin air)
Twentyfive miles per gallon at what, 180km/h? I hope you're able to run UL fuel... If so, that's impressive. If not, LL is leaded and not what we want. Get a conversion to 92UL done and show us your fuel economy running on UL.

That's f'ing impressive
2007 Kia Spectra LX, front wheel drive (as all of them), 2 L, 5 speed manual. CEL lit
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 01:56 PM   #109 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: ND
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
We are running lean burn in first gen Chevy Volts with good results, but does require a custom tune and open loop.

We run leanest (~20:1) at 1400 rpm (idle speed) and normal AFR above 2200 rpm. Running lean requires a lot more cam advance and a lot more spark due to the loss of power and slower burning mixture when lean. You also don't want to run lean with a cold engine, which created a lot of hurdles, but I think we handled it quite well. With the addition of a alcohol sensor ($45 in parts), the mixture is accurate with either premium fuel or ethanol blends of E30 (due to higher octane) to E85. Since the first gen Volt is high compression, we decided to stick with premium fuel to take advantage of it. Our tune is highly optimized even with E85.

It may not sound so impressive running max lean at 1400, but we're able to maintain 1400 rpm at highway speeds of up to 59 mph for an extended period of time.

More info on HPTuner's forum. forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?63020-First-Gen-Volt-Tune-(Volterado)
2018 Chevy Volt

Last edited by towndrunk; 04-29-2018 at 02:09 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to towndrunk For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-30-2018), niky (05-08-2018), pgfpro (05-01-2018), RustyLugNut (04-29-2018), Xist (04-29-2018)
Old 04-29-2018, 04:32 PM   #110 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 982
Thanks: 271
Thanked 385 Times in 259 Posts
It is a misunderstanding of lean burn . . .

Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
What "Warranty" does that tuning offer against burned vales and piston tops?
. . . that comes from the full power crowd. Once past the 18:1 AFR point combustion temperatures actually start to drop.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RustyLugNut For This Useful Post:
pgfpro (05-01-2018)
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com