Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-15-2008, 11:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,488

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 345
Thanked 119 Times in 78 Posts
Are these the supercaps I've heard so much about?

Edit- Too late on the trigger. And yes...


Last edited by roflwaffle; 01-15-2008 at 11:20 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-15-2008, 11:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 113 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
Ooooo, eestor! I've heard a bunch about them recently, good luck with that.

Got any sketches for us to look at? Aeroporn!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 18

AD5OS's - '90 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 42.41 mpg (US)

AD5OS's Explorer - '96 Ford Explorer XLT
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There are other companies and universities that are working on other combinations.... basically we will just pick whatever has the best cost/performance ratio... assuming that the product can charge quickly. The thinking is we will have a matrix of these.. some will be charging while other are discharging. A computer will cycle through which caps are charging and which are ready to discharged.

So once these caps are charged they will keep their charge as long as we are able to recoup energy lost from accelerating, drag, and accessories.

Another major technology will be special struts that are able to convert kinetic energy back to electrical and that are able to damper the vibrations in the suspension.

Yet another idea is to use a special paint that is photovoltaic to help aid in energy efficiency. This is an exciting new technology that we should all see in the upcoming years in small devices like cell phones and mp3 players.

so mileage will be dependent on the size of the vehicle... the weight of the cells... and how much you want to trade off weight for capacity. I am sure we will find a sweet spot as far as power vs weight vs cost.

Also we should start seeing super caps replacing li-ion batteries in nearly every field especially light devices like cell phones.

Last edited by AD5OS; 01-15-2008 at 11:35 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 11:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 113 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
What kind of price goal are you looking at?

I'm don't have enough fingers to tally the money,
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 12:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 18

AD5OS's - '90 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 42.41 mpg (US)

AD5OS's Explorer - '96 Ford Explorer XLT
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
quite honestly we have not been thinking as much about what a final sales price would be.

We are going to follow the PC model for parts and assembly. standard sizes and specifications but with a degree of flexibility. With several different manufactures competing for customers the market place will drive down component prices just like they do in the PC market.

The notion is that when you want to "build" a car you would choose which options and features you want installed. The parts would be ordered and shipped to you for self assembly. Or the product would be assembled by professionals and delivered or picked up at a store. Much like Dell pre-assembles computers and ships them out.

So initially the price will be high but the cost should significantly lower assuming that this business model is successful.

I know that the auto-parts and car repair industries are much more profitable than the actual car design industry... imagine how much simpler and cheaper parts would be there were only a few standards and parts were interchangeable from one make or model to another... so you could easily take a Nissan engine and install it in a Ford chassis with a Porche transmission.

We will be most likely versioning our standards so that a Ver. 1.1 engine should work in a 1.0 body etc... If we have alterations or evolutions in design we will diverge probably with either a new Version number like Ver 2.0 or just with another type and start the Version process over. The car designers do this as well and they just change the version numbers with car years... same concept but independent of year models.

This might be pie in the sky thinking but it will most likely be our strategy for the X-Prize preliminary round.

ideally i would like to keep the cost on the very low side of the car scale... somewhere between the cost of a motorcycle and a sub-compact car. Of course with simpler lighter parts the cost of shipping and construction should be kept to a minimum.

Also we want to introduce the concept of upgrading to the car industry... so if you want a faster motor or more mileage capacity you merely upgrade your car much like you would upgrade the ram or CPU of your home computer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 09:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 405
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Gone4
You have heard a lot from EEstor in press releases but not through personal inquiries because they don't actually have them working yet. It's just a concept. If you plan on entering for the prize soon, supercapacitors most likely won't be ready in time.

Many larger capacitor designs also leak energy. We have to wait and see where the new technologies go, but the ones testing at many universities leak power (exponentially, as capacitors always discharge).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 10:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 18

AD5OS's - '90 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 42.41 mpg (US)

AD5OS's Explorer - '96 Ford Explorer XLT
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
we have yet to actually see EEstor's caps however we have seen Maxwell's and they seem to be the real deal. They are readily available... albeit expensive. They leak only about 1-5% every 72 hours... though I would be happy with 1% leakage per hour. The Caps main role in our thinking is to act as a buffer to a battery pack, at least at first.

Here is a link to a very capable supercapacitor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 11:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 113 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
I wonder then if you are planning for the solar to be enough to recharge the caps en route or if you will be stopping to recharge them?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 12:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 18

AD5OS's - '90 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 42.41 mpg (US)

AD5OS's Explorer - '96 Ford Explorer XLT
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh these arent panels... its just paint that will be able to provide some energy back into the system... it is just an idea to help out with economy.

most likely they will only be able to run the radio or some smaller accessory while the car is running... or it can be recharging the caps when it is parked outside.

The specs of the paint show that it is good at converting light even at low intensity and off angles into usable energy... I think thats why it is so intriguing. These could be efficient even on a cloudy day.

here is an article about it from a quick google search.. im sure there are other sites where you can look up this information.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 01:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 405
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Gone4
Do the documents on leaking tell you at what capacity they were charged to while testing? The fuller the capacitor in relation to its max charge, the faster it will leak.

How are you dealing with performance issues since capacitors power output varies significantly with charge? I = C dv/dt for DC power. Capacitors discharge exponentially so you will be at 2/3 power after one time constant. With batteries this is fine since you will only be using a specific portion of the capacitor, but I've never understood how you can get reliable performance out of a system built without batteries (or fuel cells). Hopefully you can help an electrically deficient mechy understand.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Automotive X Prize - would a modded Civic VX make it? Krieg EcoModding Central 31 01-02-2008 07:06 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com