Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-10-2011, 03:03 AM   #91 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
texanidiot25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 331

Formula - '96 Firebird Formula/Trans-Am
90 day: 19.31 mpg (US)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 31 Times in 18 Posts
I think he's talking about something that actuates in response to coolant temps, using a spring. Not unlike how the engine's thermostat is simply a spring that opens by expanding at a certain temp.

__________________


Lets see how far it can go

"All I know about music is that not many people ever really hear it. [...] But the man who creates the music is hearing something else, is dealing with the roar rising from the void and imposing order on it as it hits the air. What is evoked in him, then, is of another order, more terrible because it has no words, and triumphant, too, for the same reason. And his triumph, when he triumphs, is ours." -Sonny's Blues
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-14-2011, 08:18 AM   #92 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 61

Kayak hauler - '05 Mitsubishi Lancer ES
90 day: 33.88 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by khafra View Post
I know there has to be a simply engineered solution I'm missing, but how do you get a spring-loaded flap to open under low pressure and close under high pressure?
Put the spring to where it is pushing back towards the car on the top side with the bottom side being the part that swings against the air movement. I will try to draw it for you but I only have the basic keyboard functions so bare with me.

..........spring=/
................../o=fulcrum
incoming air=/ =radiator side of air dam



The springs could be mounted on the ends of the air dam and be attached by some metal to the fulcrum. Be sure to reinforce the entire thing to prevent any bending under the pressure. You will have to test different springs to find the right one that will be open at less than the speed at which you want it to be fully open. Also, the spring side of the lever will have to be covered to prevent the air pressure from pushing on it unless the entire air dam is on the incoming air side of the lever.

Last edited by wwkayaker; 06-14-2011 at 08:19 AM.. Reason: not lining up
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wwkayaker For This Useful Post:
khafra (06-14-2011)
Old 06-16-2011, 10:25 PM   #93 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: dorchester,sc
Posts: 58
Thanks: 16
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
when might we get an actual picture of this adjustable grill block? I'm thinking were all picturing one for ourselves, so it be nice to see one for real.
__________________
Your only as good as your last mistake
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:58 PM   #94 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
I am bringing this thread back from the dead of 2009.

A quick update. I did install the grill block on my 2003 Matrix. It did not open and close properly because the grill block conformed to the front grill which is curved. When you bend a hinge it doesn't like to work well anymore. It likes to snap open or shut. Being that it was made mostly from coroplast, it just bent and didn't open. I dinked around with it a little, but not enough to get it working properly.

I have long since sold the Matrix and the grill block has been sitting on my shelf since. I think about the project here and there and how I'd go about improving it (aka making it actually work) should I go about having another crack at it. The time has now come for that second crack.





This time around I've changed a few things. Mainly, the grill block must be straight and flat, and it also has to be more rigid. The flexible coroplast "frame" was a major problem. The frame is now made of aluminum angle that is bolted together. This allows everything to hinge properly and easily. Secondly, the thing was a big pain to work on while it was on the car. This new version is designed to be an insert so it can be relatively easily removed from the vehicle to be worked on. The mounting of the actuator was also an issue so it has been moved off of the grill block. It will now be mounted somewhere on the vehicle and it will actuate the grill block via a flexible pushrod. This will make mounting the actuator easier and allow it to get out of the way of water and other things.

On the electrical side of things I've decided to tap right into the coolant temperature sensor. I already have been working on a coolant temperature hack for the Prius, so I already have an arduino in the car and tapped into the coolant temp, so its already half done for me.





So, let me explain what we actually have here. Its an aluminum angle frame. The opening will be 12" wide by 4" tall. My upper grill has less area than that, and I have my lower grill blocked year round, so it should be plenty of area. The shutters are made of coroplast with a 1/8" steel rod stuck through one of the corrugation pockets. This acts as the hinging point and adds some rigidity. The steel rod is bent on the end to make a lever for the actuator to push on. The two steel rods are connected by an aluminum plate with some holes in it. Another bend could be made on the steel rods to capture that plate. Not pictured is a flexible pushrod that will attach to the aluminum plate. This will go to the electric door lock actuator so that it can push the grill block open and closed. An Arduino will be used to interpret coolant temperature and decide when to open and close the grill block. Using an H-bridge allows the Arduino to easily control the door lock actuator.

I'm very happy with the design thus far. It should prove much more robust and really doesn't cost much more at all. The aluminum angle is a couple bucks and the 1/8" rod is also very cheap. Any coroplast can be used and painted to look good even. But, I'm always open to new/other ideas.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	grill_insert01.jpg
Views:	5306
Size:	83.5 KB
ID:	11945   Click image for larger version

Name:	grill_insert02.jpg
Views:	4277
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	11946  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
Cd (11-28-2012), Leinaad (08-16-2018), Mira (05-16-2013), WesternStarSCR (11-28-2012)
Old 11-28-2012, 03:35 PM   #95 (permalink)
Busting Knuckles Often
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 135

Blue Maxx - '04 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LT
Team Chevy
90 day: 26.96 mpg (US)

Tink's Van - '08 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
90 day: 19.09 mpg (US)

2004 5 Speed Goldrolla - '04 Toyota Corolla CE
Team Toyota
90 day: 36.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 313
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
subscribed

Subscribed! Cant wait to see it progress...

Looking at doing one using a 1" or 2" linear actuator next year. Aftermarket coolant fan switch from Summit Racing that uses probe stuck into radiator fins to fire time limted relays etc.

Grill Shutters, at their most basic, are merely rectangular butterfly valves, stacked (I know, obvious).

Your design lends this basic design concept to whatever sized needed. I think store bought air registers are more trouble and fiddly. Love the simple, large, modular, removeable design you got there.

As long as I can pivot some rectangular shapes around an axis, I can build grill block shutters, assuming wife has no other plans for the honey do list...

Great CAD images BTW.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:16 PM   #96 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
Thanks. I have been thinking of it on and off for quite a while. I wanted to come up with something easy and cheap to make without any special tools, and scalable for whatever application. I think this fits the bill fairly well.

I started working on the block tonight. I have some 1/8" x 3/4" angle aluminum. Its not really what I wanted to use (I was thinking of 1/16" x 1/2" angle.), but it should work.






I started with cutting out the top lengths, and then the side lengths. I just used a hacksaw with a metal blade and clamped it in my vise. Make sure to use the smooth side of your reversible jaws, the jagged side will eat up the surface of the aluminum very quickly.





Then, I measured down 7/8" on each side and cut along the inside edge of the material. 7/8" ended up being more than enough, but gave me the overall length I wanted which was 4".





Using the vise, I bent each of the tabs inward.





Then, I cut the excess length off the ends. I'll cut the remaining excess off the tabs once I get farther along.





Then I did a test fit. It looks pretty good. My two side pieces are a little off. Bending is quite hard to get them the same length. But, I can shave a bit off the long one with a file and use a hammer to bend the tabs down a bit more.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 001.JPG
Views:	1910
Size:	67.1 KB
ID:	11947   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 004.JPG
Views:	1979
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	11948   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 009.JPG
Views:	2000
Size:	58.6 KB
ID:	11949   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 011.JPG
Views:	1888
Size:	78.1 KB
ID:	11950   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 016.JPG
Views:	1923
Size:	56.0 KB
ID:	11952  

__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #97 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
I worked on the frame again tonight.




First I popped some holes in the side pieces. Yep, the excess tab still needs to be cut off.





Then I popped some matching holes in the top and bottom pieces. I also countersunk them so the insert should slide right into the hole that is cut for it. At this point I was glad I was using 1/8" thick aluminum vs 1/16".





Then all that was left was fitting and putting them together. In order to get things to line up I had to do a little slotting work with the drill and a bit of elbow grease. Thankfully its only aluminum so it eats through it pretty easily.





Here is the frame assembled. As you can see my camera kinda died on me at the end, but at least it got the whole frame in the image. It looks pretty good. Its not perfectly square, but I'll work that out another time by messing with the bent tabs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 001.JPG
Views:	1953
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	11961   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 004.JPG
Views:	1865
Size:	74.1 KB
ID:	11962   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 006.JPG
Views:	1867
Size:	81.6 KB
ID:	11963   Click image for larger version

Name:	prius 007.JPG
Views:	1847
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	11964  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
a8ksh4 (11-30-2012)
Old 11-30-2012, 06:52 AM   #98 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
meelis11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Estonia
Posts: 199

Green frog - '97 Audi A4 Avant 1.9TDI 81kW
Diesel
90 day: 43.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 19
Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts
subscribed
__________________
http://mpguino.wiseman.ee/eng - get assembled mpguino from here!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 07:05 AM   #99 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 114
Thanks: 33
Thanked 56 Times in 38 Posts
Might I suggest using an RC servo instead? I don't know the level of experience you have with the Arduino, but for those who may not know, servo control is very straightforward.

I'm working towards a very similar grill block, but it looks as though you are closer than me to making it a reality. I have an on-board Arduino performing other duties, and have CAN communication working in testing. I've envisioned a similar shutter, but with aluminum slats, the Arduino polling the ECU for coolant temp, and using a PID algorithm controlling the slats via an RC servo to the minimum required opening.

I'm currently using one of these servos: 125G EXI Servo B1228
with one of these for 12V to 6V conversion: Exceed RC UBEC-3A (2-6S Lipo Input)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 07:34 AM   #100 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
A servo is a good way to go if you want to control how far the grill opens. I think others have mentioned it, perhaps not in this thread specifically.

The main benefit of using a power door lock actuator is the price. The servo deal looks to be ~$25 from your links. You can get a power door lock actuator on ebay for $4 shipped, and the h-bridge on mouser for $5 plus shipping.

NEW CAR UNIVERSAL POWER DOOR LOCK ACTUATOR MOTOR 12 volt U.S.A seller | eBay
TLE52052XK Infineon Technologies | Mouser

I happened to already have the door lock actuator, so all I needed was an h-bridge.

Options are always good though!

__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
actuated, ardunio, automatic, grill block

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Permanent Aluminum Grill Block and Belly Pan Markmysite EcoModding Central 41 02-27-2014 09:22 PM
Lower Grill Block 2005 Honda Civic Arminius EcoModding Central 12 10-04-2011 12:31 AM
DIY - Front Grill Block - 1991 Honda CRX SVOboy DIY / How-to 33 06-24-2011 05:16 PM
Airdam and grill block on the Mirage BrianAbington Aerodynamics 5 10-15-2008 06:54 PM
another project idea: electronically controlled grill block rjacob Aerodynamics 3 07-10-2008 04:36 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com