Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2017, 01:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 34

The pig - '99 Dodge Ram 3500 Slt
90 day: 11.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Turtle Doin what they say cant be done.

Hello all. After reading through numerous threads on ecomodder ive decided to journal out my endeavors.

I plan to get about 20 (maybe more) out of my 1999 ram 3500 v10 4x4 auto.

So far after reading on all the big custom truck forums they all say you cant get no more than 10 mpg out of what i am driving. Then again they're most likely deep southerners who belive open tailgates improve aero qualities.

Ive been doing alot of research on aerodynamics. Used a few cheesy free apps to cfd some ideas. And done alot of sitting besides imagining the airflow. As well as researching when i have the time to.

Anyway. For a plan of attack.

Again im dealing with a '99 ram 3500 v10. 488 cubes of double wide pulling torque, An aweful ride when unloaded, decently quiet on the highway and an automatic transmission sutable only for the cheapest pre modern era econo cars.

In short, i hate it. But at the same time i love it to death. Or at least love the ideas i have for it. Because its either spend $20,000 for a used diesel thats been chipped out or spend $10,000 make what i have now do as good or better than the diesel varient.

Ive been wanting a truck for a long time. Ive owned plenty of 40+Mpg econoboxes, but they cant haul what makes me money.


So im planning an aero shell. With extenable boat tail for longer trips. All with the ability to angle up to a full shell and or easy removal.

Smooth underbelly, wheel skirts and something of a front air dam.

Manual transmission swap. When i have the funds ill start scouting junkyards to find either the 5 or 6 speed that was offered behind the v10's and cummins. And rebuild it for reliability sake.

Change all fluids to thinnest possible synthetic. I havent changed them all since i bought the truck so that needs to happen anyway.

Lower the suspension, and sooner or later convert to air. As it sits i can drop about an inch up front and 4.5" round back. Thats to keep it level as well as allow suspension clearence for ride quality. And for running air springs all the way around. I would like to have the ability to change ride height on the fly so i can drop it down more on the highway, when bumps are minimal. As well as better handle any load put in the back.

Im probably not going to go full blast with the aero work as i still need it to be a truck. I live in a camper and need to be able to move it around when needed (although as little as possible. (Also an eco adventure)). And i frequently do welding work and need to fit a lincoln sa200 in the back. I take it out when i know im not going to need it for a while as it with all the gear adds around 3000 lbs to the back.

Ive also been toying with the idea of turning it into a homebrew hybrid. My thoughts are to get a 50 hp electric motor, appropiate controller and decent amount of battery to cruise 50 miles on a charge. If even possible. With regen braking and a manual transmission i think that alone could massively improve efficiency. To do it i would put the electric motor just behind and to the side of the transmission/transfercase. The driveshaft is a two piece unit, meaning halfof the shaft stays at the same angle all the time. I think i could do a belt drive to that to drive the wheels. Ive also had thoughts of raiding a prius and somehow jamming that in to drive the back, and convert the v10 to drive the front. But thats just silly.

Anyway. Like i said. I want to record everything i do to this truck somewhere and figured this was the place to do it. You guys can chime in on what works. What doesnt. Call out my bs. Whatever.

Ill add some pictures as soon as i can. I want to be as detailed as possible for anyone else thinking about doing the same to there cars.


Last edited by Sparkeysmall; 02-07-2017 at 01:19 AM.. Reason: Picture excuse
  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sparkeysmall For This Useful Post:
101Volts (03-08-2017), Ecky (02-07-2017), ECONORAM (02-17-2017), RustyLugNut (02-17-2017), t vago (02-07-2017)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-07-2017, 02:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
Engine-Off-Coast
 
Natalya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 257

Hyper Black - '10 Honda Insight LX
90 day: 48.59 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 108 Times in 69 Posts
I love your spirit. It's great to accomplish what people say can't be accomplished.

With hypermiling it's a hundred tiny things eventually adding up to big improvements.

If you're nimble enough to jump inside you can remove the big pipe footstep things to save some weight.

You can also shorten the stalks for the mirrors, or maybe replace them with adjustable stalks so you can have them in close unless towing.

You can probably get partial side skirts installed in the back wheel wells pretty easily.

If you get a ScanGauge II to monitor water temp you can partially block the grill in an aerodynamic fashion. SG can also help with other aspects of hypermiling.
__________________

Silver 2001 Insight (Sold)
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Natalya For This Useful Post:
101Volts (03-08-2017)
Old 02-07-2017, 06:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Antwerp (Belgium)
Posts: 209

SUVcruiser - '07 Ssangyong Kyron 2.0 XDI
Diesel
90 day: 38.09 mpg (US)

SUVcruiser year 2017 - '07 Ssangyong Kyron 2.0XDI
90 day: 38.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 9
Thanked 47 Times in 42 Posts
To help you:

- Grillblock (and proper coolant and oil temperature monitor)
Helps warm up and aerodynamics
- (road)Tyres with low rolling resistance if you do only roads.
- Tyre deflectors for aero
- Hot/warm air intake for fuel economy
- Undertray for aero
- Other differential gears in front and rear axle for lower cruising rpm.
- Accelerate at 80% load and keep rpm as low as possible
- Search for the mod/hack other people have don to manually lock the torqueconverter (more efficient acceleration)

Thats what i know of gassers. I aim a diesel boy.
Probably a lot more but i aim on hollyday and this is what i know first tought.
__________________
Drive smart, save fuel, save money, spare the enviroment

But keep having fun!
I can drift



Est. 2011: + 10l/100km
Est. 2012: + 8l/100km
Fuel use 2013: 6,894l/100km Tg: + 7l/100km
Fuel use 2014: 6,165l/100km Tg: + 6,3l/100km
Fuel use 2015: 5,885l/100km Tg: + 5,9l/100km
Fuel use 2016: 5,843l/100km Tg: + 5,75l/100km
Without holiday: 5,759l/100km
Tg 2017: + 5,6l/100km
Tg 2018: + 5,5l/100km
EPA Rated average: 8,1l/100km
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 07:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 34

The pig - '99 Dodge Ram 3500 Slt
90 day: 11.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
YAY!!! Some replies!


anyway...


i have already blocked the grille. still have yet to take a picture of it, and have yet to go through a tank to see what its done. so far however this tank I've been mostly city driving so thats not helping. I'm allready a gauge watcher and so far my coolant temp (on the dash) hasn't gone up. i do use dash command and a wifi obd2 adapter to see what the computer sees. and its reading only a few degrees higher than usual. also watching the ambient temp on the overhead it says a few over what it actually is outside when cruising, and picks up on acceleration. so I'm not too worried. there is still plenty of airflow to the radiator for normal driving. the bumper has a few slots as well as a half inch gap from the grill to bumper.

I'm thinking that alone isn't worth too much considering its a one ton 4x4 pickup. however, i do feel as if adding the block does add a high pressure area just in front of the truck to help push the lower pressure air around. if that makes any sense. I'm no aerodynamic wizard but like i said, I've been doing as much research as i can. I'm sure ill have a few questions to bounce around the users around here.

and i work night shift so ill get some pictures up of the block when i get up...

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2017-02-07 at 6.16.48 AM.jpg
Views:	670
Size:	136.0 KB
ID:	21277  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 09:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aardvarcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Evensville, TN
Posts: 394

Amocat - '05 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 Manual Access
90 day: 26.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 98
Thanked 324 Times in 170 Posts
Why did you start with such a small engine? I have a 2001 2500HD 8.1L 496 Big Block, Allison Auto, 4x4. Internet lore states it can't get over 10-11 MPG. Just doing basic "nice" driving techniques with a flat tonneau bedcover will get me up to 14MPG highway. The stick shift will enable you to do more advanced eco driving, i.e. coasting down hills and to stops.

I would focus on doing your aero bedcover first, as that is probably the biggest single aero improvement you could make, and you will notice the improvement more than the smaller aero pieces that make a smaller impact. Focus on making the aero shell useful, i.e. hinge or other mechanism to open, water tight storage when shut, and not just a bother that needs removed to do "real work". Since I infer you know how to weld, I would suggest you use that skill to make a really nice one. Think about things like a built in toolbox accessed from the driver side, but that doesn't interfere with loading things the full width between the wheel wells. Or even get a hatchback or two from a junkyard and put that together into a shell, using the factory seals and flanges to ensure it is watertight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 09:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 9,921

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 53.89 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 38.47 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 56.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,474
Thanked 1,840 Times in 1,139 Posts
Welcome to the site. That is a lot of planned work. I look forward to reading about your progress.
__________________
Current project: Automatically actuated grill block
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 09:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
V8 guy
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 4,373

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)
Thanks: 97
Thanked 963 Times in 704 Posts
I have a suburban with a 7.4L V8 and I was told I would be lucky to get double digit fuel economy.
With only engine mods and engine off coasting I was able to increase fuel economy from 6.6mpg in town to 12mpg and highway driving was as high as 16MPG.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 08:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 4,650
Thanks: 0
Thanked 401 Times in 358 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkeysmall View Post
Ive also been toying with the idea of turning it into a homebrew hybrid. My thoughts are to get a 50 hp electric motor, appropiate controller and decent amount of battery to cruise 50 miles on a charge. If even possible. With regen braking and a manual transmission i think that alone could massively improve efficiency. To do it i would put the electric motor just behind and to the side of the transmission/transfercase. The driveshaft is a two piece unit, meaning halfof the shaft stays at the same angle all the time. I think i could do a belt drive to that to drive the wheels. Ive also had thoughts of raiding a prius and somehow jamming that in to drive the back, and convert the v10 to drive the front. But thats just silly.
That part doesn't sound impossible at all, but I still believe you'd be better off working around the electric drive unit applied to the rear axle of those Toyota Highlander hybrid SUVs and repurpose it to drive the front wheels of your rig. Attempting to make the V10 drive the front wheels would be not impossible at all, but not worth the endeavor since you'd presumably have to repurpose a transfer case to set the angle from the transmission to the front differential and that would add some weight and friction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 34

The pig - '99 Dodge Ram 3500 Slt
90 day: 11.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Ive been inbetween using 2x4's and ply wood, 1/2" tube tig welded frame and film or fabric. Or some form of metal frame and plastic sheeting.

Ease of use is a must. And beig able to tuck all my welding equiptment underneath would be awesome. The only real problem is my sa200 sits just a tad higher than the roof line with the frame that it sits on now. Id post some pictures of that current setup but i get one bar of 3g where i work (and 10 hrs a day. Im dead asleep when im home.). Currently the welder sits longitudinally. Raised up on a frame to clear the gooseneck ball. Also makes for a pain to fire it up (which im planning to put a catylitic converter and muffler on. When i got the rig setup the exhasut just dumps straight out the top.). I want to modify the frame that all sits in so that the welder sits laterally towards the front of the bed. And run the exhaust for it through the shell. I guess i would have to draw a picture to better show what im thinking.

Anyway having all my equipment in the bed doesnt hurt mpg's too much. And if i could rearrange everything to fit under an aeroshell i could keep it all in there, out of the weather and locked up. I dont have the rig together right now as im not going to need it for a while, i got an indoor welding job at the moment and have no need for it. As well as the fact im scared somebody will rip away the 200' of copper cable just sitting back there otherwise.

So i guess that brings up some issues now that i think about it. Plastic wouldnt like the heat too much. Wood is flammable. So i guess i should make it out of sheet metal. Rear visability wouldnt be possible with the welder back there anyway. And a smooth paint job would look smashing.

Another anyway. Ive been thinking about having the shell extend to just above the windshield. So as to take away that angle. But that would increase frontal area. Doing so would enable more cargo space. And i would think a smoother transition from the windshield to the tailgate would be beneficial.

Ive been researching some on vortex generators. You see em on street rally cars all the time. So what if i put some small ones toward the back of the cab roof (assuming a topper that starts at that corner.)? From what i can tell they increase drag themselves but break up the boundry layer, further reducing drag overall. Perhaps i should build the topper first, get some numbers in, then make some easy to attach/remove (magnetic?) vortex generators to test if they really work. And being magnetic would allow for placement at different areas to find the best solution.

If only i had a wind tunnel.
__________________
"20+ from a gas one ton!? INCONCEIVABLE!!!"

-Every other forum i tried to state my intents...

Total spent on mods. :$440($200 was oil. So take it or leave it)
Total returned from 10mpg baseline :$112
miles since i started ecomodding :2653 miles

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 09:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 34

The pig - '99 Dodge Ram 3500 Slt
90 day: 11.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
That part doesn't sound impossible at all, but I still believe you'd be better off working around the electric drive unit applied to the rear axle of those Toyota Highlander hybrid SUVs and repurpose it to drive the front wheels of your rig. Attempting to make the V10 drive the front wheels would be not impossible at all, but not worth the endeavor since you'd presumably have to repurpose a transfer case to set the angle from the transmission to the front differential and that would add some weight and friction.
Ill do some research. Im pretty cheap when it comes to buying things. Very few things i have bought new. If i can get an electric drive system for far less than the $10,000 ive been able to put together online then we're on to something. And the main reason im doing all this is to save some cash in the long run.

I really like the idea of a hybrid and ev. The problem with full ev is range. As soon as they figure out a 300 mile battery that fills in a few hours ide be all over it. (Super capacitor?). And hybrids are an ingenious solution to a problem that should have never existed in the first place. Being able to store braking energy i think is a technical marvel. Of course its just science. But brilliant in an oil fueled world.

I read something about an energy aborbing suspension. And made me start thinking "how would i build that". If i could run a rack and pinion. Rack moves with the suspenison and pinion driving a generator. How much dampening effect would it have. Ive been dreaming up a tube frame luxury car for a long time and keep adding new theories to it. It would have a fully adjustable suspension for optimal ride comfort. And therefor would move alot. I want to do some form of hybrid or electric drive to make it as quiet as possible. (Again, this car is just a theory in my head. But its gonna happen. When i have a shop to play around in.)

A nuclear powered car would be awesome. Never have to put anything but water into it. But that has its own issues.

And no its not an impossible thought. Its just finding all the bits that would work in my situation.

I did front drive on my jeep zj for a while. Just plugged up the rear of the transfer case and put it in 4 wheel drive. The rear axle pinion bearings wore out and i got tired of the whining. Finally fixed it though. And never noticed an mpg drop during that time.

__________________
"20+ from a gas one ton!? INCONCEIVABLE!!!"

-Every other forum i tried to state my intents...

Total spent on mods. :$440($200 was oil. So take it or leave it)
Total returned from 10mpg baseline :$112
miles since i started ecomodding :2653 miles

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
aero cap, mpg increase, project, truck shell aerodynamic

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com