Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now

Now available from EcoModder: ScanGauge II fuel economy gauge.  Click for details.  

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2008, 08:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
How to decide whether to remove rear spoiler to decrease drag, improve mileage

This question has come up a number of times: "Does a rear spoiler lower my mileage?"

I'm wondering if we can come up with a few guidelines about whether or not to advise rear spoiler / wing deletes, considering that ....
  • some OEM spoilers reduce both drag & lift:
  • others are designed to reduce lift at the expense of increased drag;
  • and still others increase drag solely for the happiness of their owners and the joy they bring their viewing audience:





Also consider that while some OEM & aftermarket wings & spoilers improve high speed stability, the type of person who is going to remove a spoiler to increase efficiency probably doesn't drive at speeds where reducing rear lift is an issue.

Generally speaking, I'd say that spoilers which extend the decklid, or sit flush on top of it at a shallow angle should be left on. These are the style typically added to high efficiency vehicles to promote clean flow separation, or to enable flow reattachment at the end of a 3 box shape:




The Renault Logan Eco2 sported a deck lip extension and other mods to increase FE.






Honda Civic Hybrid has a rear spoiler not found on the non-hybrid version.



Is it reasonable to say that spoilers (wings) that stand off the rear deck should be deleted for better mileage?

EG:





(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
Attached Images
File Type: jpg renault-logan-eco2-rear-spo.jpg (13.6 KB, 1057 views)
File Type: jpg civic-hybrid-rear-spoiler.jpg (33.4 KB, 1060 views)
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 08:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Or do we need to say that every model is different, and the only surefire way to know is tuft test, tuft test, tuft test.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 10:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
nut
 
Coyote X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southen West Virginia
Posts: 621

Metro XFi - '93 Metro XFi Convertible
90 day: 62.17 mpg (US)

DR650SE - '07 DR650SE
90 day: 55.26 mpg (US)

Moonbeam - '94 Astro Conversion
90 day: 22.31 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Coyote X Send a message via AIM to Coyote X Send a message via MSN to Coyote X Send a message via Yahoo to Coyote X Send a message via Skype™ to Coyote X
I would think a basic coast down test of some sort would work. Find a flat spot, get the car up to 80mph and let it coast in N measure the time from 75mph to 50mph. Do it enough to get a good average and consistent numbers then remove the spoiler and do the same run again.

Some variation of this would probably be easy for most people to test. I don't think saying always remove it is better though. Remember when I did a coast down test with my rear spoiler a while ago and it was actually better with the spoiler on It was a tiny difference but it was repeatable so it had to actually be helping.
__________________

My Convertible Metro XFI Plug in Hybrid Project build log
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 10:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
That's what I meant to say: coastdown test, coastdown test, coastdown test.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 12:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
Awesomeness personified
 
AndrewJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 642

Harold - '94 Civic CX
90 day: 54.51 mpg (US)

Margot - '08 Big Dummy
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
Send a message via AIM to AndrewJ
damn coastdown tests...
__________________
"I got 350 heads on a 305 engine. I get 10 miles to the gallon. I ain't got no good intentions." - The Drive By Truckers.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 12:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
Lurking footless halls
 
Silveredwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: northeast
Posts: 249

Orient Blue - '02 325Ci Convertible
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Coastdowns: They keep beer cans from making rings on the furniture, right?
__________________
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Clarke's Third Law

Last edited by Silveredwings; 01-10-2008 at 01:04 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
From a relatively uncommon thread about mods at cleanmpg, a member there removed the "stand-off" style rear spoiler from his 1999 Honda Accord after determining to his satisfaction that it increased fuel consumption slightly:




Attached Images
File Type: jpg accord-spoiler.jpg (17.4 KB, 1033 views)
File Type: jpg accord-spoiler-chart.jpg (14.5 KB, 1035 views)
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silveredwings View Post
Coastdowns: They keep beer cans from making rings on the furniture, right?
I thought that's what all those old America Online CD's that came in the mail were for.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 12:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,377

Daox's Paseo - '97 Paseo
Team Toyota
Last 3: 53.99 mpg (US)

Daox's Prius - '04 Prius
90 day: 57.08 mpg (US)

CM400E - '81 CM400E
Thanks: 158
Thanked 364 Times in 252 Posts
This is a great question, and one I've been asking myself lately WRT the Paseo. Now, the Paseo's spoiler doesn't look like much. There is barely a gap between the trunk and the bottom of the spoiler (less than an inch). This leads me to believe it may help with aero. Also, I have noticed that on a rainy day the back windshield stays completely dry at highway speeds. I believe this is a good thing? None of my other cars stay as dry as the Paseo in rain. So, is it possible that the spoiler helps this (since it is downstream of the airflow)? I think I speak for most here in saying I don't want to rip off the spoiler (a big PITA from what I've heard) just to see that it does in fact help aero.




Last edited by Daox; 01-15-2008 at 02:11 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2008, 01:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 88

Silver Bullet - '02 Golf TDi
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
MetroMPG, I just gotta ask...where did you get that photo of the blue Nissan with the plywood skirts and rear wing? Is there a "story" that goes with that photo?

I was ROTFLMAO...


(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
__________________
Best tank ever: 72.1 mpg in February 2005, Seattle to S.F.
New personnal best 'all-city' tank June '08 ... 61.9 mpg!
Thanks to 'pulse-n-glide' technique.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/how-decide-whether-remove-rear-spoiler-decrease-drag-598.html
Posted By For Type Date
Keversite.NL • Bekijk onderwerp - Dakspoiler This thread Refback 05-20-2010 02:36 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 54 05-08-2011 11:19 PM
Sources of Aerodynamic Drag in Automobiles and Possible Solutions SVOboy Aerodynamics 12 02-17-2010 03:09 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com