So you want to talk up your new fuel-saving product on EcoModder...

[MetroMPG]

More than a couple of times now, someone has signed up to use the forum to promote their latest gizmo that supposedly saves some fantastic amount of fuel. (I can think of four or five.)

Unfortunately, this plan hasn't always unfolded as smoothly as the promoter hoped.

So the interest of avoiding future tears and hurt feelings, the purpose of this thread is to lay out & discuss EcoModder's guidelines for promoters/vendors, and let them know what we expect of them, and what they can expect from us if they want to talk up their stuff.


1. We want evidence.

• EcoModders are generally a skeptical bunch. (That's a good thing!) That doesn't mean we can't be friendly & respectful, but don't expect us to take your claims at face value and embrace your product without question.

• The amount and quality of evidence we'd like to see will generally be proportional to (a) how fantastic your product's claims are, and (b) how well understood the science is behind it. In other words, realize that:
  
  "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

• Because you're selling something, expect to be held to a higher standard of evidence than the average hobbyist/enthusiast talking about his/her latest modification. (They're not trying to separate other people's hard-earned money from their wallets.)

• What constitutes quality evidence? Here's an example: the EPA Motor Vehicle Aftermarket Retrofit Device Evaluation Program describes testing designed specifically to evaluate products that claim to save fuel or reduce emissions.

2. Customer testimonials don't count as evidence.

• We want to see science-based evidence. Evidence gathered using the experimental method.

• Your typical customer may not have the ability, knowledge or desire to control as many variables as possible to rigorously test the effect of your product.

• A large number of testimonials doesn't cancel out the weakness of testimonial evidence.
  
  So, while we may be happy to hear that your entire circle of family and friends thinks your product is the best thing since sliced bread, respectfully, it still doesn't count. It's still not science-based evidence.

3. Media reports about your product don't count as evidence.

• Exposure doesn't equal proof. There's no shortage of reporters who are clueless about the scientific method and are eager to report "exciting" news to the world.

4. Don't expect us to do your basic research

• Since you're the one hoping to separate people's money from their wallets, it's your responsibility to demonstrate that what you're promoting is accurate.

• "Try it yourself if you don't believe me" is no substitute for doing your own homework. Also, it's a classic snake oil sales pitch.

• Of course, you're welcome to invite members of the forum to evaluate or review your product. Some of us might even take you up on the offer out of sheer curiosity. But just because we like solid data, that doesn't mean we can automatically produce it. Not everyone has the time, facilities or interest to do a proper evaluation.

---

Feel free to misinterpret the healthy skepticism you may encounter in the forum as "closed-mindedness", unwillingness to accept The Truth, or collusion with The Man.

At that point, you'll probably go away. But remember you're welcome back when you've got some solid 3rd party evidence to present.

Until then, without acceptable proof, we won't allow you to post links to your web site, or testimonial YouTube videos, etc., etc.

Good luck with your business.

[Angmaar]

Thank you, hopefully more scammers will see this!

[MetroMPG]

Well it won't prevent new ones from signing up & posting.

But at least we can point them here afterward so they'll see why we're asking so many durned questions and not automatically giving out our credit card numbers.

[Tango Charlie]

I make a motion to Sticky-fy.

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by Tango Charlie

I make a motion to Sticky-fy.

I second the motion

[MetroMPG]

I'm thinking ... maybe we have too many stickies.

Besides, I bet you a dollar they won't bother reading it anyway, in all the excitement of joining to tell us about their new product!!

[Rokeby]

Great idea.

I doubt it will work, but ya gotta start somewhere.

I would suggest that as soon as a post/thread is determined to be a sales pitch it be moved to either the For Sale forum, or even the Off Topic Forum if it's clearly bogus... "I've got some magic beans."

[mcrews]

nice

[d0sitmatr]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Nah, too many stickies.

Besides, I bet you a dollar they won't bother reading it anyway, in all the excitement of joining to tell us about their new product!!

you could make it a requirement for new members to read and click a radiobox saying they have read it and understand.

[SVOboy]

Well said, d-man.