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Old 01-26-2018, 03:09 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Exactly my thoughts Red.

In my travels to Montana a couple weeks ago, a deer off the road to my right, facing away from me caught my attention at dusk.

My reaction was to begin slowing down and check the other side of the road since they usually are found in herds. Sure enough, another deer jumped onto the road and stopped in front of me. I applied maximum braking, slightly screeching the tires, and must have stopped just inches from the deer.

Automated systems can view in 360 degrees, not grow sleepy, lose focus, and respond in fractions of a second. A good automated system would have identified the deer in the low light well before I could perceive it and more gradually slow down. Had someone been tailgating me, they would have hit me for sure... unless they had automated braking that can react in milliseconds.

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Old 01-26-2018, 04:00 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Reminds me of my tour through Finland.

After a couple of days driving through the forest, with elk warning signs at 3 kilometer intervals, I finally encountered my first large wild beast, standing by the side of the road some 10 meters away from the tarmac.
A reindeer. And its 49 best friends and relatives.
Now these are huge; their antlers easily reach higher than my head.

I did not trust it one bit so I slowed down from 80 km/h (the speed limit) to say 40 and went past them. They did not react at all.
Then suddenly the herd went on a stampede, passed me on the right and hooked sharp left right in front of me. I slammed the brakes and got to a halt just a meter away from the closest reindeer...
Phew!

Got going again, then within 500 meters there's the first and only reindeer warning sign of my whole 3000 km trip...
Then a clearing strewn with the most bizarre works of art I've ever seen. In the middle of nowhere.
Amazing Finland.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The fact that this is news confirms the problem is rare.
Well, Teslas aren't exactly common :-)
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:53 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Automated systems can view in 360 degrees, not grow sleepy, lose focus, and respond in fractions of a second. A good automated system would have identified the deer in the low light well before I could perceive it...
Well, maybe. Perhaps a more pertinent question would be whether an autopilot system developed by urbanites, and mostly driven on urban freeway commutes, would even recognize a deer - or cow, bear, wild horse, antelope, buffalo, fallen tree or large rocks that've rolled down the mountainside, or any of the other things occasionally encountered on the road out here in the non-urban world. It's like the people who insist that they can bypass the snow-closed interstate by taking a single-land dirt road through the mountains in their low-clearance 2WDm, because their navigation systems say it's a road.
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It's like the people who insist that they can bypass the snow-closed interstate by taking a single-land dirt road through the mountains in their low-clearance 2WDm, because their navigation systems say it's a road.
Like that time I didn't have cell service and followed my car nav despite signs on the side of the road saying it was closed.

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Old 01-27-2018, 04:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Apologies if I missed it but I just read that the driver claims to have been following a pickup that swerved suddenly to avoid the fire truck. Neither he nor the autonomous system could react quickly enough.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Exactly my thoughts Red.

In my travels to Montana a couple weeks ago, a deer off the road to my right, facing away from me caught my attention at dusk.

My reaction was to begin slowing down and check the other side of the road since they usually are found in herds. Sure enough, another deer jumped onto the road and stopped in front of me. I applied maximum braking, slightly screeching the tires, and must have stopped just inches from the deer.

Automated systems can view in 360 degrees, not grow sleepy, lose focus, and respond in fractions of a second. A good automated system would have identified the deer in the low light well before I could perceive it and more gradually slow down. Had someone been tailgating me, they would have hit me for sure... unless they had automated braking that can react in milliseconds.
I think you did better than a computer could have. The computer won't be able to tell a deer from a cow say, or even some mailboxes for that matter. So those other things won't jump out in front of you, but the others are more common. Is it going to slam on the brakes for a mailbox on a sawhorse, or everytime you go past a pedestrian? Like you said, you saw one and got ready for more, a computer will never be able to do that effectively. How many other places do you become aware of potential problems before they happen? I remember watching the video where a self driving Tesla avoided a crash on a merge situation with a massive last minute brake event. They put it up as a win, but I could see what was happening 10 seconds before the Tesla did and a simple lift off the throttle would have avoided braking at all. My wife sometimes freaks out a bit while I'm driving and somebody cuts us off. I always tell her to relax, I could see that coming 3 cars back and I gave them just enough room to be an idiot.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:58 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Well, maybe. Perhaps a more pertinent question would be whether an autopilot system developed by urbanites, and mostly driven on urban freeway commutes, would even recognize a deer - or cow, bear, wild horse, antelope, buffalo, fallen tree or large rocks that've rolled down the mountainside, or any of the other things occasionally encountered on the road out here in the non-urban world. It's like the people who insist that they can bypass the snow-closed interstate by taking a single-land dirt road through the mountains in their low-clearance 2WDm, because their navigation systems say it's a road.
When I first heard this story I thought the rental car must have had a bad GPS, but it looks like even old skool maps can lead you astray. This was a sad deal, a series of unfortunate events.

Deaths of mother, son in mountains last month leave many questions | News | missoulian.com

I have been stuck in waist deep snow with my family as well as my 6 year old twin nephews. It gets pretty scary fast and you just need to slow down and make good choices. We were 8 hours getting out with help and only 200 yards from a clear road. We had cell service and it was 60 degrees so were never in real danger but it gave me a ton of respect. Now I always carry a tow strap and Hi-lift jack when going into the mountains along with all the normal good clothes, blankets, food, etc.
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:14 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I think you did better than a computer could have. The computer won't be able to tell a deer from a cow say, or even some mailboxes for that matter. So those other things won't jump out in front of you, but the others are more common. Is it going to slam on the brakes for a mailbox on a sawhorse, or everytime you go past a pedestrian? Like you said, you saw one and got ready for more, a computer will never be able to do that effectively. How many other places do you become aware of potential problems before they happen? I remember watching the video where a self driving Tesla avoided a crash on a merge situation with a massive last minute brake event. They put it up as a win, but I could see what was happening 10 seconds before the Tesla did and a simple lift off the throttle would have avoided braking at all. My wife sometimes freaks out a bit while I'm driving and somebody cuts us off. I always tell her to relax, I could see that coming 3 cars back and I gave them just enough room to be an idiot.
I watched some presentation about the AI behind a self driving system and it will definitely distinguish between deer and cows, let alone mailboxes.
It will immediately isolate anything that moves. It will also determine whether other vehicles etc. have a normal position, direction and speed for their situation or not, again identifying potential hazards.

Maybe you are a better driver than that system in identifying the idiot driver ahead of time.
But the idiot driver would be served well by an autopilot system. If all cars had autopilot the roads would definitely be much safer.
Anyhow, we need to avoid branding autopilot as a cure for idiot drivers as that would block acceptance for the very drivers that need it most.

Cows can run faster than a man btw. What makes them road safe is the fence in between. No fence: take care.

I was knocked from a moped by a cow once. The cattle were crossing a road and I was waiting patiently for the herd to clear it when the farmer split the pack to let me through.
So I gingerly footed the moped engine off right in the middle of the road while the cows were standing on the side.
Then a cow turned its head to see what's going on and it swayed a meter towards me. Cows have a long head and neck...
Banged against my arm and down I went.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:10 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
When I first heard this story I thought the rental car must have had a bad GPS, but it looks like even old skool maps can lead you astray. This was a sad deal, a series of unfortunate events.

Deaths of mother, son in mountains last month leave many questions | News | missoulian.com

I have been stuck in waist deep snow with my family as well as my 6 year old twin nephews. It gets pretty scary fast and you just need to slow down and make good choices. We were 8 hours getting out with help and only 200 yards from a clear road. We had cell service and it was 60 degrees so were never in real danger but it gave me a ton of respect. Now I always carry a tow strap and Hi-lift jack when going into the mountains along with all the normal good clothes, blankets, food, etc.
The question — as always — what are the consequences of walking?

That’s the one question calculated to get me to slow.

Spacing is everything, and speed a close second.

(Tesla drivers killing or maiming themselves is funny. Should’ve taken The Grey Dog.)

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