Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2008, 11:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Test: F-150 pickup "cap on" vs. "cap off" @ 60 mph

Found an interesting efficiency test done by an owner of a 1994 Ford F-150 pickup.

His goal: "to finally (we hope) determine the best configuration for fuel mileage" between...
  • bed cap on
  • cap off, tailgate down
  • cap off, tailgate up






1994 Ford F-150 XLT with an 8 foot bed, 5.8L V8, automatic


Note the vehicle year: 1994 - so, no ScanGauge. That created challenges for collecting data.

Fortunately, we have a creative problem solver. What he did instead was to install a $5 used GM Manifold Air Pressure Sensor into a manifold vacuum line, the voltage of which he could monitor while driving.

(I can hear Coyote X now... "COAST DOWN TEST! COAST DOWN TEST!")

Over the same 9 mile stretch of Interstate, on the same day, using cruise control, he & his son ran the truck in the 3 configurations, taking readings from the pressure sensor every 15 seconds to chart engine load.

The results were charted and the values averaged:




(Click through to the owner's site to see the full size version of this chart.)



Not surprisingly, the camper shell run had the highest average load.

However the owner was surprised to learn that the lowest load was with the tailgate up.

His site has more information about the day's events, his MAP sensor circuit diagram, and another chart of the MAP averages. Check it out:

Test to Determine the Relative Engine Load - With or Without a Camper Shell (and with the tailgate up or down)


__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
aerohead (06-18-2014), ECONORAM (12-29-2012)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-03-2008, 10:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just an observation about this little experiment:

The canopy on that truck is very boxy, which obviously will increase its drag. Most of the canopies on trucks (atleast, most of the ones I see) are rounded off, and have a cleaner profile than this one.

Also, look at that space between the cab and the canopy... That's a pretty large space, especially towards the top. It's known that the size of the space between the bed and the cab affects the aerodynamics of the truck, and I'm sure the canopy is no exception.

Don't take my comments in a bad way, it's a good experiment! It's especially good for the owner of the truck, and people with the same or similar truck and canopy. I just wanted to point out a couple of things that could change the results that, I'd say, the majority of other people would get if they did this. I plan to do a similar experiment this summer, except I plan to do it with a week, or a month, for each different setting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Big Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Steppes of Central Indiana
Posts: 1,319

The Red Baron - '00 Ford F-350 XLT
90 day: 27.99 mpg (US)

Impala Phase Zero - '96 Chevrolet Impala SS
90 day: 21.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 186 Times in 127 Posts
None of the regulars here are suprised, are they?
__________________
2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
None of the regulars here are suprised, are they?
I'm not,
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
Giant Moving Eco-Wall
 
DifferentPointofView's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Dale, IL (or A-Dale)
Posts: 1,120

The Jeep! - '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ Laredo
90 day: 23.75 mpg (US)

The Caliber - '07 Dodge Caliber R/T
90 day: 30.6 mpg (US)

The 'Scort - '98 Ford Escort LX
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
The canopy on that truck is very boxy, which obviously will increase its drag. Most of the canopies on trucks (atleast, most of the ones I see) are rounded off, and have a cleaner profile than this one.
Don't you want an abrupt ending to air's flow so that you get cleaner air separation?
__________________


Yea.. I drive a Jeep and I'm on a fuel economy site, but you just wouldn't understand... "It's a Jeep thing!" *Jeep Wave*

Did I Use Too Many Abbreviations? Here's The Abbreviations List
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
MP$
 
diesel_john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 595
Thanks: 5
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Send a message via MSN to diesel_john
Smile

I was sure that my cap is better than the bare truck. But now i have to check it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	03-04-08 002c.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	39.8 KB
ID:	417   Click image for larger version

Name:	03-04-08 006c.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	48.5 KB
ID:	418   Click image for larger version

Name:	03-04-08 005c.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	68.1 KB
ID:	419   Click image for larger version

Name:	03-04-08 004c.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	53.4 KB
ID:	420   Click image for larger version

Name:	03-04-08 003c.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	38.8 KB
ID:	421  


Last edited by diesel_john; 03-05-2008 at 10:03 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
Awesomeness personified
 
AndrewJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 642

Harold - '94 Honda Civic CX
90 day: 54.51 mpg (US)

Margot - '08 Surly Big Dummy
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Send a message via AIM to AndrewJ
yes, you ideally want a "clean break" at the rear, but the front edges should (again ideally) be rounded.

In this test I don't really think that having the leading edge being "boxier" would effect the outcome very much. Seems to me that the results are pretty clearly showing the effect of trailing wake.

With the shell on, the trailing wake is as big as it's ever gonna get, therefore the mileage suffers.

With the shell off and tailgate up, the trailing wake is smaller, and (I think) the air can best approximate the "ideal" flow, coming down from the cab at approximately 13 degrees, just clearing the top of the tailgate.
Clearly it's better to not have the air "approximate" it's ideal line, but to give it an actual form (aero cap) to flow over.

With the tailgate down I would think that the air is no longer being "fooled" into following the 13 degree angle, so it's just separating off the back of the cab much like it would separate off the back of the camper-shell.
__________________
"I got 350 heads on a 305 engine. I get 10 miles to the gallon. I ain't got no good intentions." - The Drive By Truckers.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 01:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Minded
 
Chris D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 667

Lunar Mist - '02 Toyota Tacoma SR5
90 day: 25.31 mpg (US)

Silver Streak - '08 Toyota Corolla S
90 day: 38.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Chris D.
I believe mythbusters busted the tailgate up down scenario..

however, my other truck did so much better with the tailgate down, I could actually get it upto 90 much faster (3 second difference) with it down vs up..

but it wasn't a traditional cab on frame with bed setup.


when I took it to the drag strip to dick around with it there,
I deleted the tonneau, tailgate, bumper, inner bed panels, spare tire and spare holder..

shedded quite a bit of weight..
with a whopping 60whp I did good at the track doing bracket.

F bomb warning..
in the in car video, we were all making fun of the fast n the furious..
Looks like that MF stayed up..
the camera was wedged in the pass seat headrest.
__________________



Last edited by Chris D.; 03-04-2008 at 01:48 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chris D. For This Useful Post:
Sven7 (11-17-2011)
Old 03-04-2008, 07:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Hi Barwelle - welcome to the site....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barwelle View Post
The canopy on that truck is very boxy, which obviously will increase its drag. Most of the canopies on trucks (atleast, most of the ones I see) are rounded off, and have a cleaner profile than this one.
IMO, the biggest problem with the cap shown is that it appears to be wider and slightly taller than the profile of the cab. Add to that the sharp corners on those projections, and yes, it's going to be worse than a new cap.

But probably not dramatically worse. The problem, as andrewj pointed out is the size of the trailing wake - that's where most of the drag is. With a cap - rounded corners or not - it's going to be big, nearly 100% of the size of the projected frontal area.

Quote:
I just wanted to point out a couple of things that could change the results that, I'd say, the majority of other people would get if they did this. I plan to do a similar experiment this summer, except I plan to do it with a week, or a month, for each different setting.
I'd love to know what you're driving and how you plan to test it.

Note that testing by the month or tank will produce much less accurate data than these guys got, because you can't control for weather, temperature, different trip profiles (speed, traffic) etc.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 07:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris D. View Post
I believe mythbusters busted the tailgate up down scenario..
I believe it's dangerous to take as gospel anything busted or confirmed on that show

A more scientific analysis suggested that, on average for a range of trucks tested, tailgate up is best. But in reality it depends on the vehicle: SAE report: Pickup Truck tailgate aerodynamics... better up, down, or off?

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Commercially produced aerodynamic pickup bed cap MetroMPG Aerodynamics 636 01-09-2022 06:21 PM
Easy Aero Fix? (Modding a pickup?) DifferentPointofView Aerodynamics 53 04-13-2012 05:46 PM
SAE report: Pickup Truck tailgate aerodynamics... better up, down, or off? MetroMPG Aerodynamics 5 11-17-2011 02:35 PM
How much do y'all pay for trash pickup? roflwaffle Saving@Home 15 08-23-2009 10:46 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com