[Clev]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Cars have NOT gotten smaller. Almost without exception, models grow with every successive redesign.

Among the same model, perhaps. See my '90 Accord vs. '10 Civic for the debunking on that one.

Cars have NOT gotten lighter. IIRC, in that '59 vs '09 Impala crash, the '09 is the HEAVIER car. Edit: '59 vs '09 Impala: 3625 lbs "shipping weight" (whatever that is) vs. 3555 curb weight.

So they're about the same size, weigh almost exactly the same, yet the wimpy Impala crushed (pun intended) the Bel Air, while protecting its occupants at the same time. How can that be anything but case closed?

Roads have NOT gotten worse. There are more of them and more safety hazards have been mitigated.

That's news to me. Around here, the busiest freeways are under construction, have confusing or no lines, and are ridden with potholes, expansion joints and grooves.

This thing was started by GM bragging about some piddling "weight reduction" on the Cruze- a small car that weighs half a Ton more than mine.

This just in: cars larger than yours are larger than yours. And that's 1/4 ton more, not 1/2 ton. The Cruze beats the '90 Crown Vic in every dimension except rear legroom and cargo volume, and weighs 700 pounds less than the Vic.

Then I said my old 5 passenger car does have good safety features, including air bag- more than adequate in my book- so it is odd to think that if we want better performance including fe performance, we are saddled with an extra 1,000 It was 3500 lbs or so right? Oh- it was 32xx then the engineering miracles took about 200 out.

3,100 according to the Chevy website, but hey, let's call it 4,000, right?

The point wasn't primarily about Tempos, it's primarily about new cars being excessively heavy. Regardless, just about everything sub-compact and up weighs 3000 or more these days.

I just looked up every subcompact offered in the 2010 model year, and guess how many were over 3,000 pounds? None. Not a single one.

Look, I get that you like to drive your older car. I drive a Honda Accord of the same vintage, despite the fact that I would in fact be a lot safer in a better car on my particular commute. But don't pretend that it's in any way better than any modern vehicle, or that people who might want to trade in that 1990 vintage vehicle for an equivalent 2006 vintage vehicle are somehow throwing something away or getting more than they need.