Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy
I'm back home on Thanksgiving break for the week and looking into purchasing an Insight for what I can sell my Civic for.
I have 3 options:
- Silver 2000 w/ 252K miles, $3100 (might take $2600 if no one offers higher). Engine replaced, transmission fixed, strong IMA (6yrs), literally everything fixed or replaced within the last 60K miles.
- Silver 2000 w/ 150K miles, $3500 (might take $3100). Mint condition but original parts, decent IMA (6yrs).
- Red 2000 w/ 78K miles, $2850 obo. Mint condition exterior and interior, small engine oil leak, unknown IMA condition, no maintenance records (so would have to inspect it for all the common issues). No 3rd-2nd downshift grind. AC doesn't work (but I wasn't planning on ever using AC). CEL and maintenance lights on; not sure what for yet (have to ask the seller). Could be cats and O2 sensors...would deleting the cat if it was bad hurt MPG if I overrode the CEL? Also, would a dirty EGR plate cause a CEL? How complicated is that for a mechanics noob to clean?
Planning on bypassing IMA anyway eventually when it dies (since I don't drive consistently enough to keep an IMA battery healthy) so IMA quality isn't key except for negotiation. All the Insights come with Bridgestone Potenzas.
Red one seems the best deal, although it seems to have the most potential for issues down the road. What is the most common cause for an Insight engine oil leak, and how easy is it to repair? I know some cars require and engine rebuild, and some are simple (my Civic had a tiny one due to a missing plug. $10 later and leak free).
Owner of the red one just bought it 2 months ago and claims he needs money for Christmas. Previous owner owned it for 15 years since 2003 (would be interested in talking to him if at all possible).
Thoughts?
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My main concern are that they're Michigan vehicles (?). Michigan has salt, and very little culture of protecting vehicles from salt because there are no state inspections. In Vermont, a vehicle with a CEL is taken off the road and not allowed back on until the CEL is gone, period. Cars that have structural rust on brake lines are taken off the road until it's fixed, even if they haven't burst yet. Cars with holes in the exhaust are taken off the road. Cars with holes in rocker panels, or other decently large spots in some critical areas of the unibody are taken off the road. Cars with a clogged catalytic converter or bad O2 sensor get fixed or are taken off the road. Most vehicles are undercoated and washed frequently to protect from salt, because the state orders your car off the road otherwise.
Now, the Insight won't get holes in the body or rocker panels, but maybe 5% of the vehicle is still steel: brake lines, brake rotors, rear torsion bar, front sway bar + links, exhaust, bolts...
Brake lines can be replaced. A rusted-out exhaust can be a pain and expensive if someone needs to take a torch to it, but it can be replaced. The rear torsion bar could be a bigger deal, but I've never heard of one rusting through. Still, 18 years and 250k miles of Michigan winters could, in a worst case scenario, make a few parts of the car very nasty to work on.
Personally, all three sound overpriced. I would hope to badger the owners down at least $500, possible more. There's one currently on sale (pending but not sold) on Insight Central with 136k miles for $2000, another with 71k miles for $2500, and one with 225k for $1500.
Regarding specific issues, a 252k mile car is most likely to have some salt-related damage to things like exhaust and brake lines, though it may be spotless, you'd just have to see. For that price, it better be.
Some of these cars weep a small amount of oil around the timing chain cover. Sometimes tightening the bolts a hair fixes it. It never gets bad enough to warrant pulling the engine to fix, and the oil loss won't even be visible on the dipstick between oil changes. This to me is very likely a non-issue.
Deleting the catalyst will prevent you from registering the car in many states, but even a CEL for a bad cat will not affect economy. Some states will look for O2 sensor spacers that would shut the CEL off, so it may not be an option.
I have not heard of a dirty EGR valve or plate causing a CEL. It can affect drivability in lean burn, and may have a small impact on economy. It can also cause an engine to burn a little oil, which would go away once the valve or plate is replaced/cleaned. These are very easy parts to get to and replace, little harder than changing the oil.
While you may not care about the condition of the IMA, in my opinion it could weigh heavily in price negotiation. A bad IMA battery will (without fooling the computers)) prevent these cars from being registered or put on the road in many states. Fuel economy
is lower without the IMA - I'm seeing 10-20% now that the weather is cooling off - and they're less fun to drive.