Aeromodability of a VW Bug?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by CFECO

This is beginning to look familiar.............

Your front looks to be the perfect blend and splitting the difference between what Sven7 and I have shown.

I'm very impressed that you examined the problem in clay model form, because even 3D computer models are really 2D projections viewed on a flat screen.

EDIT-1: Just found this interesting creation.

Illuminati Motor Works
Illuminati Motor Works: Blog



A bit too retro for my tastes, but nice just the same.

EDIT-2:
I just discovered the blog section of this website, lots of cool stuff, including the below (Dave Cloud's "Dolphin").
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...hin-13142.html



EDIT-3:.......................more nice stuff
Neil Blanchard Designs



I think Neil has it right, center the driver up front and these forms start to make sense.

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Sven7, you are showing the original seating position, right?

Your scheme looks a little better than I expected based on the marked-up templates I posted.

I still think there will be slight bulges or blisters for the leading edges of the front tires (as in the 3-wheel red clay car I did), but it should all work out.

You could have a longer overhang in front and smaller wheel blisters, but every time I work it in clay, it looks better this way. Maybe not the best aero, but life is full of compromises.

Porsche 944 style wheel blisters, might be the answer?

Original seating position but possibly lowered seat due to the lower roof. I basically rebodied it.

Would you mind doing a side view of your ideas? It's hard to see where the driver is going to sit- the first couple sketches show the driver sitting on the front axle. Was this intentional?

Personally I like the single "bubble" look for three reasons: It looks simpler, it's more aerodynamic and it will be many times easier to create in fiberglass. The front should not be hard to form around the wheels if you take it like any one-box minivan does.



Maybe even put a little crease in there like the Honda Elysion.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by kach22i

I still think there will be slight bulges or blisters for the leading edges of the front tires (as in the 3-wheel red clay car I did), but it should all work out.

Wow, you have some good chops there! I really like those sketches!

-soD

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Sven7

Dang it Kach! I had to do one too. This is more stromlinet vogn style but it could use the original Beetle glass if done right.

I trust that you do not mind me melding the two concepts together. The blue felt tip pen trace over is lower than your "mass market" car, but maintains a similar but lower seating position.

Automobile pictures by kach22i - Photobucket


In this one I took a tip from Neil's design and centered the driver, driver's feet stop short of the front torsion bars.

Automobile pictures by kach22i - Photobucket


Group project at this point, a lot of shared ideas?

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Wow, you have some good chops there! I really like those sketches!

-soD

Thanks, I feel like a fossil with a pen at times, I must pick up a 3D program and master it before too long.

[Frank Lee]

Putting the windshield way out in front really doesn't help aero and makes for a strange "driving from the back seat" experience. In fact it would tend to move the center of pressure forward especially in xwinds thus decreasing stability.

[CFECO]

But...But... the template? Cab forward leaves more "room," to taper the rear properly, in a "mainstream" car. Before I ever saw a template, the shape just seemed to be similar. Put the passengers into the large area, and taper the rest of the body to the rear, then decide if 3 wheels or 4 was the choice, and go from there.

[Frank Lee]

Yeah, but it "leaves more room for boattailing" only if the passengers have been shifted forward, or if the rear passengers are headless. Pretty much can't shift them forward on a regular Bug chassis- their feet are already virtually up against the front suspension/steering stuff.

[Moose]

idk if anyone has suggested this or not yet but if you have a 4x100 bolt pattern vw "teardrops" would be a good rim for what you want to do.
with a little vinyl you could seal up those openings and have a completely flat rim.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Moose

idk if anyone has suggested this or not yet but if you have a 4x100 bolt pattern vw "teardrops" would be a good rim for what you want to do.
with a little vinyl you could seal up those openings and have a completely flat rim.

The 4x100 rim wont fit.. Bug hubs have a larger PCD and centrebore..

I know as I tried to fit a 15" BBS off an e30 (4x100, 57.1mm centre) onto a 1303 at my garage..

No luck

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Yeah, but it "leaves more room for boattailing" only if the passengers have been shifted forward, or if the rear passengers are headless. Pretty much can't shift them forward on a regular Bug chassis- their feet are already virtually up against the front suspension/steering stuff.

I think this is where the seating layout comes into play. This is why I earlier posted Neil's seating layout.

I think you can move a center driver up a good 6 inches in the VW.

I think a single rear passenger (centered or sitting sideways) will allow better tapering of the canopy.

At this point we have a tandem seating layout if sticking to an 8 foot wheelbase. The decision to go longer in the wheelbase is a tough one but makes perfect sense in aerodynamics, right?

Advantage of our basic shape is the middle part or front 1/3 is the wide part, so that is where side by side seating is allowed.

Like I said earlier I've struggled for a long time with these issues (30 years), it's just one of those problems I like to try and solve as many ways as I can. Never was one much for math, this is my kind of 3D puzzle.

The flat plane wedge shaped cars I played with in the late 70's and early 80's were much simpler, but of course less aero than these tadpoles we are playing with now.

Bullfrog Tadpoles - Other pond critters