Aeromodability of a VW Bug?

[Pendragon]

Copy or not, the original Beetle was most certainly inspired by the Tatra. One of the articles questioned whether the original Beetle could have successfully competed with the Tatra had it not had the misfortune to find itself behind the Iron Curtain after the Second World War.

Just looking at the Tatra, one would have to conclude that it was a cleaner aero design though I doubt there are actually wind tunnel data to confirm this conclusion.


Cheers

[123]

video of Jay Leno's Tatra

Tatra T87 - Antiques - Jay Leno's Garage

also gtkid you mentioned using alcohol/E85 do you know whats needed to run E85? I would recommend you start by soaking carburetor parts in some E85 for a while to see if there is any issues before using it. I had problems when using ethanol in my bug but that was not fuel grade ethanol.

[gtkid2002]

Sadly I'm going to have to abandon the project it seems. Parents are kind of splitting up, and I am going to have to find a place. So if anybody wants the baja with no engine for 100 bucks, clean title, and you're in SW Washington, lemmie know.

I'd still love to do this, and I'm still going to try and be active here, but I'm going to be on pins and needles again for a while. I picked the bug because it was so simple, so original, and had so many options for it already, most of them DIY, like most Baja's. If somebody somewhere wants to do this, go for it. Sorry to have another project die, but for now, it's out of my hands.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by gtkid2002

Parents are kind of splitting up, and I am going to have to find a place.

Should have bought a VW camper, you could have lived in it.................just kidding.

Sorry to be reading of your hard times.

I posted your car in a random picture thread, hope you don't mind. Lots of guys there love old VW's.

Link:
Random TRANSPORTATION pictures - Page 586 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

[gtkid2002]

I actually have another bug I'm driving now, it's a '69... I am debating about living in it, but between driving from Southern California to British Columbia, I'm not sure I want to unless I can install blinds.. and even then i'll miss hauling passengers. And I don't mind. I'd just make a little note that says it doesn't have a speedo, wheels, or an engine in that post there. It did look wicked with those wheels though.

[gtkid2002]

Well, I still have the car! I actually pulled the engine out of the baja a few days ago. Looks like it's going to stay. I've been kicking around some ideas for this concept still. A friend actually told me about how some aircraft enthusiasts chop the 4 cylinder vw engines in half, so they're 2 cylinders, and run them in their ultralight prop planes. Why not chop one or just remove the guts from half of it, and run it in an ultralight Aerobug? That or I've heard about people swapping motorcycle engines into bugs, so something like that with the option of FI might be cool to try. I tried driving my '69 around on two cylinders. It was.. gutless. It could pick up on a flat stretch, but man. I live up 500 feet. It bogs down in FIRST. Granted that's with a stock body, two dead cylinders dragging, and about 300 pounds of cargo/crap. Not to mention 3/4 tank of gas. But again, it did just fine on the flat stretch.

I'm honestly thinking about just going with the most extreme option. Ripping off the body, chopping the sides of the floorpans in half, shrinking the width of the car, making it an inline two seater, and then making an all out custom fiberglass body. The front would remind me of a prowler, with the hubcaps or wheels from the cars in I, Robot. Just a little smoother if memory recalls.

Basically turn the cabin into an airplane cockpit. That narrow, a single longer gullwing door, analog gauges (User preference for me), a simple stereo (Aux in and a single volume knob/power switch), Maybe make it a small (10w PEAK) tube amp? Solar roof, 1 or 5w LED cabin light, all LED brake/turn signals, and modern H4 bulbs.

I have a longer list, but it's in my car. Anyhow. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Death Threats?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by gtkid2002

Howdy everyone. I probably should have posted this question before I went out and got myself a Bug to tear apart and redo, but I felt it still possible. Still do though.

Anyhow.

I'm going to try and strip down my VW bug I just got down to the chassis, and put an aeromodded body on it. I read somewhere that the reason why the VW Bug gets such limited gas mileage**(Mom's informed me that her 68 got 30-40mpg, current non project 69 gets 14, current project 75 doesnt run yet) because of the aerodynamics, the Cd of .41.

Would it even be worthwhile to try and continue this project and make a custom aeromodded 1975 VW Bug designed for fuel economy (As in try and get a Cd of say.. .18 or lower for a beginning goal), or should I just rebuild the carb that's on it an enjoy it as the baja it currently is (29's up front, 32's in rear, haha)?

I can post a basic outline of what I was planning on trying to make if anybody is interested, but it's nothing fixed yet. Right now I've got the bug set aside, and I'm trying to sell the tires to fund the project, but if it's best to keep it bajaed, I'll take down my ad and have some fun. Or just fix it and sell it or something.

When you consider that with virtually the same powertrain, that a VW Bus gets only 1-mpg worse than a Beetle,but a Karmann Ghia gets 13-mpg better,you begin to appreciate frontal area and Cd.
You'll notice how VW has chopped the roof down on the New,New Beetle.They're going down the same road as Ghia did in 1955.

[gtkid2002]

Originally Posted by aerohead

When you consider that with virtually the same powertrain, that a VW Bus gets only 1-mpg worse than a Beetle,but a Karmann Ghia gets 13-mpg better,you begin to appreciate frontal area and Cd.
You'll notice how VW has chopped the roof down on the New,New Beetle.They're going down the same road as Ghia did in 1955.

Heh. If I had a Ghia, I would be restoring it, not chopping it. I have a huge soft spot for those cars, so I couldn't bring myself to do anything major to one. A pre-chopped VW Baja I picked up for $50 bucks however, I have no problem chopping into little bits, and if all else fails, selling it for scrap. That's most of the reason I'm doing this to a bug. That and I'm looking at maybe not even using any of the body anymore. Hard to say at this point. I don't have cash for anything yet, but I had enough to buy some sketchbooks, so that'll be my starting point for now.



While you're actually reading this, would a flat bottomed teardrop shape be best, or would one that could arch up inbetween where the wheels are (but would still be smooth) be better? I'm just thinking lowered cars generally scrape on speedbumps, and maybe one with an arch wouldn't scrape at least as badly. I wouldn't really want my fancy-pants car to have to limp over them sideways like a lot of other cheap poorly lowered Hondas.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by gtkid2002

Heh. If I had a Ghia, I would be restoring it, not chopping it. I have a huge soft spot for those cars, so I couldn't bring myself to do anything major to one. A pre-chopped VW Baja I picked up for $50 bucks however, I have no problem chopping into little bits, and if all else fails, selling it for scrap. That's most of the reason I'm doing this to a bug. That and I'm looking at maybe not even using any of the body anymore. Hard to say at this point. I don't have cash for anything yet, but I had enough to buy some sketchbooks, so that'll be my starting point for now.



While you're actually reading this, would a flat bottomed teardrop shape be best, or would one that could arch up inbetween where the wheels are (but would still be smooth) be better? I'm just thinking lowered cars generally scrape on speedbumps, and maybe one with an arch wouldn't scrape at least as badly. I wouldn't really want my fancy-pants car to have to limp over them sideways like a lot of other cheap poorly lowered Hondas.

When Morelli did the 'banana car' in the late 70s he used an arched chassis so to speak.He called it a 'crushed-Omega',after the Greek symbol.It had the reflex-cambered body the Aptera has used (an inverted von-Mises aerfoil ).
You could do this,but you'd lose the backbone tunnel which gives the VW chassis all its strength.The shift-rod which runs inside the tunnel would have to be re-engineered with u-joints.And the slop introduced by the u-joints might leave the car shifting like a Porsche 911/912.Lousy!
The CNR banana car had a pretty low Cd,but actually higher than my pickup truck today.
My opinion is that the results would not justify the expense.
You might consider a motorized 'Select-Drop' which could alter the front torsion bar pre-load on the fly,allowing you to raise and lower the front at will.
Somewhere,here at the aero forum is a thread on a chopped and channeled bug.It might be a three-wheeler.Don't remember.Perhaps some of the members recall it and help dig it up.You really ought to see this car.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by aerohead

...And the slop introduced by the u-joints might leave the car shifting like a Porsche 911/912.Lousy!

The shifting in the 911 and 912 is not that bad. If you want bad, try the early 914. That has a linkage with several joints in it, including one that reverses the direction of rotation. Ugh!!

-soD