BORPower additive?

[aerohead]

1) At 10-RPM on a tabletop tester?
2) At 300, 600, and 900 RPM in the Diesel engine test?
3) Do you know of an automotive engine that will run at 300-rpm?
4) 600-rpm IS quite common for 'idle' speed of automotive engines.
5) 900-rpm isn't even 'fast-idle' during 'cold warm-up' open-loop operation, or during a 'choked' carburetor, on all those 1991 MotorSilk 'worn-out' engines ( maybe those engines were worn out in the manual transmission cars by owners who tried to let out the clutch at 900-rpm in first gear, causing the entire powertrain to chug and buck ).
6) How about 10,000-RPM ?

[Logic]

Ah still fighting are we.
OK you can have the last word

Yes BN is in the study, but the results with BA are mentioned separately from BN.
Other research finding synergy between BA and the established engine oil additives received similar contempt and utter disregard from you.

Mostly; Any attempt at holding your hand through the process of logical deduction seems to lead to a total lack of ability in that dept.

If the well established procedure and equipment used by tribology research is good enough for all the other additive found in engine oil, it's good enough for BA and tests on old, pre rebuild engines are of no threat to anyone besides possibly the oil and engines makers' bottom line.

I consider this thread closed due to a total (or apparent?) lack of deductive logic and a blatant lack of respect for fellow Ecomodders in general, to the point where your responses and behavior are identical to those of a paid troll.
Goodbye.

[freebeard]

I should think that the mods and the OP (Quezacotl) could actually close the thread.

Further affiant sayeth not.

[aerohead]

So far, the 'logical deduction' is that, Argonne, and it's 3rd-party researchers never 'concluded' the research, leaving things open-ended, and an 'unknown quantity,' No actionable information.
In the context of 'The Art of War', you had already lost the battle, and the 'war' before any of us ever took the field. And it's because of what we already knew that you didn't.
You've attributed things to boric acid that have never been supported by facts.
While facts cannot be argued, it was 'essential' that your hypothesis be tested, as best we could, in the full light of the scientific method.

Every phenom experienced by BORPower contributors can be explained within the absence of anything to do with 'boron.'
If anyone is still interested, and in the absence of critical information Logic purposely withheld from us, I've got a 'book-full' of information germane to subject of 'engine additives', from which we might be able to do some forensic reconstructions of what's been 'measured.'

[Logic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I should think that the mods and the OP (Quezacotl) could actually close the thread.

Further affiant sayeth not.

Not yet plz.
I have pictures from/for the linked research to add as few follow them.
A picture is worth a thousand words and all that.
And the reaction to them telling...

[Logic]

Boundary and mixed lubrication proven with rotating cylinder liners. Proof from 7min56:
https://youtu.be/yomaQvs0esA?t=476

I NB that the rotating liners ameliorate but don't completely negate Boundary and Mixed Lubrication.
I 'see' rings turning with the liners..?
But "...at idle...40% less fuel...at 1/3 to 1/2 load...10% less fuel..." with the friction of rotating the liner included in the calculation.

[freebeard]

Not yet plz.

Okay, it was just a suggestion.

In the context of 'The Art of War', you had already lost the battle,

Which one? Sun Bin or Sun Tzu? The former is two volumes of fifteen chapters, the latter is thirteen chapters.

Can you narrow it down a bit, or is it just "I know more than you going in"?

[aerohead]

1) Motoring the engine with the dyno to establish FMEP does not duplicate the actual stresses and strains ( mechanical and thermal ) of firing tests.
2) So, FMEP as reported as derived from imep minus pmep is inaccurate, casting the accuracy of the test results into question.
3) FMEP must be calculated as about equal to pmep + ramep.
4) pmep is registered from the gauge for exhaust and intake strokes.
5) ramep ( rubbing & accessory mep ) from (mechanical friction & accessories).
6) ramep increases almost linearly with speed and maximum combustion pressure.
7) pmep is independent of compression ratio, and increases with speed, almost as the square of the speed.
8) Friction horsepower increases at about the square of the speed.
9) The engine's mechanical efficiency @ idle= zero!
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10) In modern automotive engines, there is no friction savings at idle to be had, as the 'stop-start' function removes this aspect of operation.
11) Automotive engines aren't 'driven' at IDLE.
12) To 'load' an engine at idle constitutes a 'SEVERE' operating condition.
13) All of Logic's 'supporting' evidence appears to be derived solely from 'SEVERE' tribological conditions, as Dr. Erdemir has commented; rather than 'normal' driving conditions.
It's the elephant in the living room.

[aerohead]

* I stopped at four 'oil change' locations in Denton, Texas, two oil-change businesses, and two new car dealerships:
- The two oil-change businesses reported that they had never experienced draining oil from cars or light trucks which did not possess discoloration.
- The Toyota dealership service department had the same experience.
- The Ford dealership service department said they 'have' experienced recently-purchased, new Ford cars, in for new car warranty oil & filter changes, which showed virtually no 'color' when drained.
So we must entertain the notion that, at least for new, or recently-purchased Ford automobiles, that an owner might witness no discoloration at 10,000-miles / one-year's service.
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No one recommended extending an oil change interval beyond 10,000-miles, or one-year, as the additive package is not certified by the manufacturer to function beyond this distance/ time threshold.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Okay, it was just a suggestion.


Which one? Sun Bin or Sun Tzu? The former is two volumes of fifteen chapters, the latter is thirteen chapters.

Can you narrow it down a bit, or is it just "I know more than you going in"?

It's Sun Tzu. And, not all versions offered are worth reading, as with Machiavelli's 'The Prince.'
You'll know, when you know.
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'Going in' the curriculum for the degree in mechanical engineering far exceeded what's mentioned in the tribological literature.
Logic's missed the evolution of dozens of related technologies which were in lock-step with tribology, so far un-mentioned, and fatal to his hypothesis.
The universe in which Argonne's US Patent was born into no longer exists, and other automotive technologies have emerged which have superannuated most of the 'Boron' talking points existing in 1991. Dr. Erdemir killed a lot of it off by himself.
It will take a while to present it all.