CarBEN EV5 Full Sized Prototype Construction - 5 Seat Electric Car From Scratch

[zoltanbod]

Originally Posted by ron

yep even worked for a company once called hydraulic drives ,how about you some great work on the zoleco I read about that completely some months ago

Well ,I ran my own restoration shop for many years, restored a 67 mustang, 66 Tbird, 70 mach1, 34 Nash coupe, 59 Apache, 70 AMX, 68 GTX just to name a few. During the resto work I also dabbled in carbuertor modifying and cylinder head flow bench porting as a hobby....then when our drag strip opened I went full time porting and carb work. Now as a result of the economy tanking I decided to get a secure a job doing body and paint on firetrucks. I am also doing a restoration on a 68 California special three days a week after work for the next year. My Zoleco project is on hold til I earn enough money to build the prototype/proof of concept. Up to this point I have not found anyone daring enough to partner with me on the project...so it will just take alot longer on my own.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Todd, thanks for the pointer to McMaster-Carr. The chuck on my PhlatPrinter 3 (which uses a Chicago Tools flexible shaft router) is small - 3/16" is the maximum shank size. And they do have a couple 4" long bits, their cutting flutes are just 1 3/8" long. This would not have worked because I need to be able to cut through the 2" in one pass - there is no digital feedback correction and any small error over say 40-50 lineal feet of cutting would cause melting on the smooth shank on the second pass.

We have a local shop who sharpens our milling tools grind a relief in the shaft of some of our T-slot cutters to give us the extra clearance we need to reach just a little further than what they were designed for. You could have a shop do the same thing to the shank of your tools just above the cutting flutes to give the bit the clearance needed to not melt the material on the second pass.

[Galane]

Here's an idea for ensuring symmetry of both sides of the vehicle. Build a mirror image pantograph and pick one side to be the master while the other gets carved.

How to build one? Not a clue! Look up this US patent. 6789985

Such a gizmo would be a big help to doing body repair, especially when re-shaping non-removable panels. The good side would be the master while the filler on the crunched side would be carved into a mirror copy.

On your foam car core you'd find out which spots on the carving side are low compared to the master side.

[freebeard]

As I recall your plan is to finish the outer shell and then turn to the suspension, with possibly Honda Civic components. Isn't that right?

I've been enjoying Julian Edgars' articles on Autospeed and I was really interested by this one:
One Very Stiff Body!

The Austin 1800 had independent trailing rocker arms in back, and rocker arms instead of McPherson struts in the front. This directs the suspension loads into each other and unstresses the body itself. Neat.


That fore-and-aft strut is where you get the anti-roll. Think you could use this?

[Galane]

Deep sills and a crosswise hump under the front seat. Hudson did that in 1948. It was a revolutionary change in American automotive design compared to the floor level with the tops of the sills everyone else was using at the time.

Hudson called it "stepdown" because from an average city sidewalk you stepped down into the car instead of having to step up. Hudson was the first to a 'slab side' car without protruding fenders. Combined with its lower than all the other makes roofline and center of gravity, Hudson's sleek new style made it fast on race tracks. It also did very well in economy runs despite its high weight. (However, a short nosed Hudson Pacemaker or Wasp weighs less than a similarly sized current model RWD Chrysler 300!)

The Citroën Traction Avant had a similar design from 1934 through 1957 though unlike the Hudson and Austin the French car had old style 'pontoon' fenders.

Hudson's engineers and designers may not have been familiar with the Traction Avant, but given the proximity of the UK to France and ferry boat travel across the channel, I doubt Austin's engineers and designers could claim they weren't inspired by the French car.

[NeilBlanchard]

Remember that the CarBEN EV5 has no side doors, so the side sills go up to the windows. This chassis will be very stiff and low torsion.

I like the ideas in the Austin suspension. The rear trailing arms will be inside a narrow box (I'll try to post pictures soon) and the the spring damper will be straight up to the top, so it will have direct leverage on the wheel. And there will be a box beam channel between the rear wheels with a lateral link inside it. So the assembly will cradle the chassis.

The front is going to bear against the firewall and I may be able to use some off the shelf items. I am strongly considering using the aluminum honeycomb composite sheets glued onto the foam with fully sleeved anchor points - and more honeycomb composite board on the front inside (near the driver and front passenger's legs) to full capture and cradle the chassis.

The foam itself is strong enough for me to walk inside the car, with just the plywood to spread my ~235 pound weight. I can only imagine what a couple of 10oz glass fabric on the outside, that wrap about 3 feet up the sides will do for the strength. When the inside gets glassed inside the four battery bays - and then a 1" thick floor panel gets fastened over those forming box beams - this car will be plenty strong.

[freebeard]

Galane -- Well, the Hudson was body-on-frame. Here's one that surprised me:

Nils Wahlberg and Nash - Salute To A Great Engineer And Unsung Automobiles

Here's the TL;DR:

This is a list of the major, and some not-so major, yet still significant, achievements of Wahlberg's Nash company:
1. Modern fully-unitized/monocoque body construction, as still in use today (1940 Nash 600)
2. "Weather-Eye", the very first fully integrated automotive heating and ventilation system (1940 Nash)
3. Scientifically developed aerodynamic design for a mass-produced passenger sedan (1949 Nash Airflyte)
4. Scientifically designed, ergonomic driver-oriented instrument panel ("Uniscope", 1949 Nash Airflyte)
5. Fully reclining seats that converted passenger compartment into a serviceable bed (1949 Airflyte)
6. Serious refinement of powertrain and vehicle airflow characteristics toward goal of top fuel-efficiency in a large passenger car (1949 Airflyte)
7. One of first manufacturers to offer factory-installed safety belts and safety-padded instrument panel (1949 Airflyte)

[Galane]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Galane -- Well, the Hudson was body-on-frame.

The 1948-1953 Hudson used a unibody structure with bolt on rear quarter panels and a bolted and welded front subframe, making it a permanent part of the structure. For 1954 the rear quarters were welded on.

[freebeard]

That assertion was under-researched. I've been wrong before, too.

I'd always heard the floor was dropped 'below the frame rails'. As it turns out Nash and Hudson met their end together.

Here's a good trick:


From the linked article:

The concept of unitized body construction (self-supporting bodywork constructed of welded sheetmetal, with no separate frame to lend support) was not brand-new in 1940; several, among them Lancia (the pioneers in productionizing unitized bodywork in 1922), Lincoln (1936 Zephyr), Cord 810, Chrysler's Airflow of 1934 and a few others, had developed either primitive unitary, or semi-unitized (Lincoln Zephyr , Cord and Airflow) construction, but Wahlberg took it that final step into complete frameless unitization that established the path for all automakers to eventually follow.

Sorry for going off-topic.

[WindyDrew]

I started building my prototype last summer with the idea of going eco extreme with no regard to style and only aero in mind but I'm very impressed with how you accomplished aero and style. I planned on the same seating only with 3 instead of 5. I will have to post up some pics for some suggestions on aero improvements. It's the ideal teardrop shape for the most part and will be very difficult to produce I'm betting.

Oh and a bump for a progress update.