Cars overloaded with electronics

[Piwoslaw]

I need to rant/vent about the growing amount of electronics in cars.

As much as some amount of electronics arguably improves safety (eg ABS) and environmental impact (fuel and emissions control), all the rest mostly improve comfort, or just bling! and show-off rights.

Why were the speed and RPM dials worse than the new lcd monitors which display speed and RPM dials? Why are touchscreens better than mechanical push-buttons?

What electronics do NOT improve are reliability, even if they claim to do so (warnings about burnt lightbulbs). Most owners of cars from the last decade have had to return home in limp mode only because some obscure sensor had a bad day.

I recently read a few posts from employees of automotive companies, and they admited that the growing amount of electronics in cars does not really raise their purchase prices (in fact, many cars are sold with hardly any profit), but instead guarantee a growing flow of revenue for authorised servicing. Because electronics tend to fail more often, fail suddenly with no earlier warning, need expensive and highly specialised tools to diagnose and are prohibitively expensive to replace.
And you can no longer perform even the simplest of repairs yourself due to the need of highly specialized (=expensive and/or limited access) tools, both mechanical (allen, torx, torx with hole, triangular, etc.) and electronic (dedicated software with subscriptions).

Add to that the increasing trend of "subscriptions" to get better performance, or even to get basic features, like being able to use the radio.
And the risk of the OEM remotely limiting access to your vehicle on a whim (see OEM bricking of vehicle software).

So why are we buying cars which make us more dependent on expensive maintenance? Because we do not have any option. How many new cars today still have manual windows? How many models in the USA do not even offer an option for manual transmission?

Having discussed this with the wife, we have decided to invest in maintaining our present car, instead of researching a potential newer replacement.
Sounds like a good plan, but...

[Conspiracy theory - start] Governments are on the OEMs' side by introducing laws which favour frequent replacement with brand new models. Other than incentives for big companies, which help bring down the initial up front cost, there are laws about penalties for emissions. Some of these laws do not even check whether your car is presently tuned properly or not, they only limit your access to certain city centers based on the emissions class (eg EURO4, EURO5, EURO6) of your car when it was produced - and this class more or less implies how young your car is. It does not matter how dirty it runs now, or even if you've blocked your EGR and removed the DPF.
So this leads to absurd situations where a properly tuned and perfectly hypermiled EURO3 car would be classified as "polluting" and would be restricted from entering many areas, while a 2024 fuel-guzzling 400hp V8 would be labelled as EURO5 or EURO6 and would have no problems with polluting those areas restricted to others.

[/rant]

[freebeard]

a 2024 fuel-guzzling 400hp V8 would be labelled as EURO5 or EURO6 and would have no problems

1600cc should be enough for anybody.

In my case the electronics are limited to a Hall Effect replacement for the points and condenser, and LED headlights.

[Gasoline Fumes]

I think my 2000 Honda Insight is too complicated! It gets a little simpler every year!

[redpoint5]

The only window failures I've endured were with the manual ones. That said, I had 1 power seat failure in a rental once, where it failed in the completely reclined position because I slept in it in Hawaii, and the motor died in that position. Insane ab workout if you ever drive a car with no back support, back to the rental lot.

I prefer power windows and manual seats.

Touch control is becoming obsoleted by voice control. My 2006 Acura adjust temperature by voice.

[y2kbug]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Touch control is becoming obsoleted by voice control. My 2006 Acura adjust temperature by voice.

i dont know about that. i’ve been trying to use voice control since windows vista and it still doesn’t know what im saying half the time. it must not like my accent or some thing.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by y2kbug

i dont know about that. i’ve been trying to use voice control since windows vista and it still doesn’t know what im saying half the time. it must not like my accent or some thing.

Yeah, I've struggled with Siri for about 7 years and gave up.

The 2 things making me confident about the increasing use of verbal control is that the technology will continue to to improve, especially in the rise of AI, and our youth will be accustomed to talking to appliances.

My age probably hinders my effort to leverage voice control, but my 2 year old tells Google to do things. Language is simply the more natural and universal method of input.

Operating manual controls on a vehicle requires enough time fumbling to develop muscle memory, but speech has no such learning curve (in theory).

... the first voice control I can remember was some sort of headset that I could push a button and tell it who to call. I would say "call Mom" and it would say "ok, calling your ex girlfriend". "No, call Mom". "ok, calling John Smith"... they only guarantee was that it would not call the person you say.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

Why were the speed and RPM dials worse than the new lcd monitors which display speed and RPM dials? Why are touchscreens better than mechanical push-buttons?

Customers like to be able to customize the display on the dash. TFT screens are also perceived as more modern and desirable than mechanical dials. They are also cheaper for the manufacturer.

Touchscreens are mandated in cars today. We have to include them for the backup camera. Once that happened it only made sense use it for more functions. Also customers want a big screen for infotainment and are willing to pay more for a bigger screen.

Screens are also far cheaper, lighter, and easier to install than a bunch of buttons and the wire harness required to run them.

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I recently read a few posts from employees of automotive companies, and they admited that the growing amount of electronics in cars does not really raise their purchase prices (in fact, many cars are sold with hardly any profit), but instead guarantee a growing flow of revenue for authorised servicing.

Who every told you this had no idea how automakers make money. We make little money on service as dealerships are not owned by automakers. They are their own individual companies. Sure we sell them OEM parts but that is offset by the cost of creating the service tools and training materials plus personal to train the techs. Service is not a major profit center for automakers.

How do automaker make money? #1 selling financing. Look at any automaker with an internal finance division and that division will be making the highest profit margins by far.

We also make money selling people the higher trim packages. Base models have very little or sometimes even negative margins. Then we add features in higher trims that have little incremental cost and sell them at a large profit margin. In general the mid to upper trims are the best selling ones. Even the top trim general outsells the base trim.

So the base trim might have a 10 inch touchscreen. We sell you an optional 12 inch screen for $600 more even though it cost us $6 more than the 10 inch model. And people are happy to pay that.

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

How many new cars today still have manual windows? How many models in the USA do not even offer an option for manual transmission?

Almost no cars have manual windows. Customers don't want them and they cost more than electric windows so we made electric windows standard. Same with manual locks.

Few few models in the USA are offered with a manual transmission and manuals have less than 2% market share here. Why? Customers don't want them. They cost manufacturers more. They get lower fuel economy - which cost manufacturers money. They have lower performance.

The tiny number of people that do want a manual are not willing to pay more to have one than an automatic so automakers just got rid of them.

Even the Class 8 heavy duty truck market is more than 95% automatic now.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Service is not a major profit center for automakers.

My new (used) 2021 Pacifica hybrid recently bricked due to "high voltage negative contactor stuck closed". I scoured the interwebz to figure out how I might fix that problem to no avail. Finally I signed up with AAA, had a tow truck haul the van to the nearest dealership, and they charged me $200 to "reset the contactor", whatever that process is.

The "right to repair" doesn't include having a vague idea of what resetting the contactor entails, apparently, and also apparently isn't covered by the 100,000 mile hybrid component warranty, even though the contactors are attached to the battery and not a serviceable part.

[Piotrsko]

Its either an obscure pushbutton or a whack on the side of the case. The real bucks are knowing where this happens. However, I suspect it was actually replaced since the reason they are sticking is arcing them shut (a much bigger problem)

[CigaR007]

Newer cars have infotainment overload which tends to distract the driver. Solution ? Even more electronics to "aid" said-driver in the form of safety systems, such as blind spot and lane departure alerting. Situational awareness slowly erodes away when one becomes dependent on such systems.