The Compact Van Is Dead in America

[redpoint5]

Do oil coolers have t-stats? I'm guessing probably not.

The brilliance of water cooling is a more even engine temperature, which allows for tighter tolerances, which allows for more performance and longevity...

I get the appeal though. The KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle. There are no solutions, only trade-offs. The trade-off for more power, etc is a more complex system.

Somehow technological evolution has favored increasing complexity. When we really start leveraging AI and analytics, things will become way more complex.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Do oil coolers have t-stats? I'm guessing probably not.

I added a thermostat and a larger oil cooler to my VW. I also added more oil flow to the heads and more spray to the backs of the pistons. I don't think it was worth the effort though, as I never did hardly break the opening point of the thermostat. From what I've been told by some of the VW gurus, the oil cooler doesn't really do anything for normal driving in normal weather. Even climbing mountain passes I'd only get about 180° oil temps and then it would drop back down. I think my installing a remote oil filter was a bad idea as now the lines got too much air and cooled the oil too much.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The brilliance of water cooling is a more even engine temperature, which allows for tighter tolerances, which allows for more performance and longevity....

True. I have wondered if adding heat pipes into the heads and perhaps cylinders would solve that. Of course then you have to wonder if water freezing inside heatpipes could damage them. It looks like properly designed heatpipes don't get damaged from freezing though.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I get the appeal though. The KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle. There are no solutions, only trade-offs. The trade-off for more power, etc is a more complex system.

Somehow technological evolution has favored increasing complexity. When we really start leveraging AI and analytics, things will become way more complex.

I don't mind complexity, but don't treat me like I'm a dumb idiot (not you, the manufacuteres). It's nice having idiot proof cars, but when your interface with your car asks you if you want it to make farting sounds for you, you are no longer part of the driving experience. The car does it all for you. Now you just pay more to get more automated driving experience.

Now the interface is a pseudointerface. You take your foot off the accelerator and it pseudo engine brakes for you. The pseudo gear shift doesn't really shift gears. I want to be connected to my car, have full control, not have a car that pretends to be something it's not.

That and artificial locks. Why are things like brake circuits locked behind a paywall? You have to subscribe if you want to work on your own car, even for something as simple as a brake fluid change. Next thing you know you won't be able to do a thing to your car without taking it to someone with a paid subscription to work on cars.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I don't mind complexity, but don't treat me like I'm a dumb idiot (not you, the manufacuteres)

Sometimes I say, more important than making a car dumb-proof enough, is to make it Brazilian-proof.

It's nice having idiot proof cars

Idiot-proofing a car enough to sell it in Brazil is quite a PITA. Some folks here complain about an older engine design simply for being older, yet if a newer engine is fitted to some car you'll see many complaints about how it costs more to mantain properly, or some idiots will ruin it by using lower-grade oil, coolant and other supplies.

[regmeister]

I almost bought a new 2018 Metris. Till I watched a review, claiming it was the worst vehicle he ever reviewed. Boiled down to poor value, for a lackluster design. Now, I believe prices are 60% higher.

I've owned two Toyota LE Vans, I believe an 84, and an 89. Rusted out from under me, and no garage to do my own maintenance. And needed a pickup for work. Still seeing the odd one driving around.

Am currently designing a makeshift lean-to camper using my bakflip tonneau cover. A little plywood, and tarp, to keep out the elements.

Surely, someone will come out with a reasonable small Van soon. Been watching the designs Humble Road has been putting out, mini-me, etc. Pretty cool.

[freebeard]

Surely, someone will come out with a reasonable small Van soon.

xBus sets the bar pretty high. We'll see how they do.

Hub motors and a solar roof will have to do until Aptera expands their model range.

[regmeister]

Originally Posted by freebeard

xBus sets the bar pretty high. We'll see how they do.

Hub motors and a solar roof will have to do until Aptera expands their model range.

First time I've looked at the xBus, and the E-Transit too for that matter. Just not enough range for me. Wish there were more hybrids in the pipeline.

[stilettoman]

I bought a rolled over cargo van with 3,000 miles, no chassis damage, in 1981, cut it off behind the doors, added a piece of another van to get five seats total, still had room for an 8 foot flat bed. It is a dump truck, tow truck and very comfortable five seater, with plush Audi seats. It does not save me money by getting good fuel mileage, but by doing many jobs that don't cost me money. It actually gets 22 miles per gallon - that is 10 around town plus 12 on the highway. I drive it about 1,000 miles a year.

Don't know if you guys would consider my 1984 RX-7 as eco-friendly. It got about 20 mpg with the rotary engine, now has more than twice the horsepower and gets 28 mpg with the Skyline turbomotor.

[EcoVan]

Like mine. About the same mpg as compact vans, but all the space you'll ever need. I run 21 to 22 in the city at 7500 lbs GVW and 30 or more highway at the same weight.
I was driving it recently with a lot less weight and city mileage moved up to 23 to 24mpg. Probably driving it as a passenger vehicle, 25 city is likely and upwards mid 30's highway.

The only downside is finding a parking spot big enough.

[regmeister]

That looks pretty capable.

I liked Merlin jetta pickup conversion, though it's pretty small. He say 52mpg (diesel).

https://youtu.be/2CR7zM0DgyI

[beatr911]

Here in California the small vans have gone through the roof in prices. Not sure what is going on exactly but if someone is saying they don't sell well, maybe it's because they are now so friggin expensive.

I love small vans for their versatility, efficiency, often decent driving characteristics and keeping the stuff inside safer from theft and weather. I've had my '02 Odyssey for 19 years now and it has been stone reliable, probably because I keep it garaged and am a bit obsessive about doing my own maintenance.

These are some observations from the last three years.

1) Used Transit Connects have doubled in price. New have increased at least 50%. Come on, 35K for a stripped Transit Connect? Really?

2) Lots more people here are living out of vans.

3) The whole vanlife thing with remote working has increased demand and "builds" to make them more homey. This is a whole new growing industry now.

4) Contractors are beginning to use used ex soccer mom minivans vice new commercial Transit Connects and the like because they are so much cheaper. For now.

5) Used minivan prices are creeping up.

6) The used full size Chevy vans have not increased at nearly the rate of the smaller vans. Maybe this is an indicator that businesses are concerned about operating costs? Gee, who knew?

7) Mildly built "adventurey" vans are rediculously expensive, but someone is buying them. Fully built vans are simply insane an irresponsibly priced. Some people either have lots of cash, or debt, or sold the house and are spending all the equity.

Just some thoughts, but I really think there is a distinct market opportunity here for a manufacturer to sell a relatively inexpensive, low content van in the USA, at least in California.

As mentioned, I currently live in California which, I'm convinced, has only a barely lucid relationship to the rest of the world. Take that for whatever it is worth.