Half-ton vs One-ton MPG (F-150 vs Superduty MPG)

[redpoint5]

Congrats on getting hitched, and the new hitch.

I own none of the stuff pictured other than the trailer and the camping gear. If I get another truck, it will probably be a CyberTruck. I basically never have a need to travel more than 200 miles with a truck.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Not sure how well Toyota's planetary gearbox and motors scales, but I imagine it would scale well in heavier duty applications.

In some Toyota and Hino hybrid trucks, the planetary gearset is coupled to an automated-manual transmission.

[GARETT0439]

Originally Posted by aerohead

MOTORTREND Magazine has had an arrangement with a company called Emission Analytics ( EM ), to conduct EPA-esque REAL MPG testing.
And though heavy duty trucks are not required to publish fuel economy ratings, on many MOTORTREND long-term tests, they'll have EM go ahead and conduct their REAL MPG tests on both 2500 and 3500 series pickups.
The current F-350 TD gets an actual 18-mpg HWY, 'naked.'
So does the RAM 3500 TD.
I believe the all-aluminum F-150, EcoBoost, 4WD, short-bed 'averages' about 19-mpg, 'naked.'

This is great info. Considering a similarly equipped gas 2.7 ecoboost f-150 vs 3.0 TD f-150 is 24 mpg vs 28 mpg, according to EPA test results, we could probably expect a gas F-350 to get 15 mpg in the motortrend test. I just did 24/28*18=15.4 to account for diesel's better MPG than gasoline. If we scale up the MPG to match what the EPA measured on the F-150 for hwy, assuming its the 3.5 ecoboost, which gets 23 mpg hwy, then 23/19*15.4=18.7 mpg hwy for a gasoline F-350.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[aerohead]

I think your arithmetic is good.
You're the only one who has a clue to what you may encounter while out 'expeditioning'.
MOTORTREND 'broke' the RAM 1500 TRX 'tender', back-up vehicle they took along on their 'expedition' with the RIVIAN pickup.
If you break an F-350 I'll want to buy you dinner just so I can hear about it!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by aerohead

If you break an F-350 I'll want to buy you dinner just so I can hear about it!

No wonder I never saw any F-150 registered in Canada reaching Brazil with a camper, while I saw an early Super Duty F-350 registered in Canada with a fairly large camper a few years ago in Florianópolis. Considering even some highways in Latin America are pretty much worn out and in a state of disrepair, better safe than sorry, or stranded in a strange place without access to proper maintenance facilities or an easy replacement parts supply...

[Piotrsko]

As a thought experiment, I contemplated what could fail on my truck on such a trip. Front end is possibly the weak point even greased really often. You would have to carry ball joints, full set of tie rod and steering components, u joints . Haven't had a wheel bearing failure, I don't have chineseium parts there but I have destroyed the differential twice: once for a lube failure, the other because it wasn't put back together correctly.
Does eat front rotors pretty regularly. They don't fail but the rotors warp really often. My Achilles heel.

So what kind of repair facilities could I expect? Probably need as a minimum a bearing press to get old ones off

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Probably need as a minimum a bearing press to get old ones off

Some places in Latin America are not that easy...

[GARETT0439]

Funny you guys should bring up south america because that is why I started this thread- to gather info for our next expedition down there. We just finished a 12,000 mile road trip through Peru, Chile, and Argentina. We chose a 1997 toyota land cruiser prado with a 3 liter TD, due to that being a very common vehicle with possibly the most spare parts availability. Even then we had to import many parts from the united states due to the huge delays to get parts down there. For example, a large toyota dealershiop in the capital, Lima, of Peru did not carry a single heater core- for ANY make or model of toyota. We carried as spares: front unit bearing, front axle shaft,CV boots, starter, glow plugs, brake booster, air filter, fuel filter, all fluids the list goes on. Before the trip we had newish ball joints, and had to replace them mid trip because the previous vehicle owner replaced them with chinese parts on a quality level even lower than what one is accustomed to in the states.
I was trying to break a high altitude record on a moto so we had a ton of gear on the vehicle, it was way too small for all the gear, tools, parts. The volcano we used at for the record attempt, Ojos del Salado, was 160 miles one way from the nearest gas station or drinking water source. The logistics were pretty insane to be there- just food, fuel, waterwise. This is why I am going back in a gas engine. I want one fuel for everything- the motorcycle, the car, the heaters. Base camp that any car can get to is at 14000 ft. There are progressively higher camps all the way up to 20k. Our diesel would not start above 15k, and would barely run/idle above that, clogging injectors and smoking us out badly. New diesel are even worse- their emissions systems clog quickly. Gas engines run fine up there. Even carbureted without touching the jets run, and better than diesels.

All this to say that next time I'm not bringing a diesel. Another issue-the ford super duty basically doesn't exist down there- they have them in Argentina and Brazil but they are Fummins- fords with cummins. If one were to bring down a 7.3 powerstroke you have basically zero parts availability. If you bring a ford 6.2 gas super duty you would have to source parts from the raptor, which are not all interchangeable.

My next truck for south america therfore is probably going to be a F-150 3.5 ecoboost or 5.0 v8. That truck and those engines are what's most common in all countries, behind the Hilux, which is not available in the united states so it rules it out for me personally.

Speaking of breaking an F-350- my current truck is a 99 F-350 with the 7.3 powerstroke. Mine rattled apart and blew up in Death Valley on racetrack road- its some nasty washboards, I think about 40 miles or so. In south america out of 12,000 miles we did somewhere between 1500-2000 miles of dirt roads, lots of it bad washboards. I would not bring an older truck down there. I want an engine that has been proven in baja and the desert, that is why I think I will go for the 3.5 ecoboost. Its been abused by thousands in the F-150 Raptor, it exists everywhere around the world, and its got boost so that should help at 20,000 ft.

[Piotrsko]

Hmmm cool info to know should i loose my mind totally

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by GARETT0439

Funny you guys should bring up south america because that is why I started this thread- to gather info for our next expedition down there. We just finished a 12,000 mile road trip through Peru, Chile, and Argentina.

Interesting...

We chose a 1997 toyota land cruiser prado with a 3 liter TD, due to that being a very common vehicle with possibly the most spare parts availability. Even then we had to import many parts from the united states due to the huge delays to get parts down there. For example, a large toyota dealershiop in the capital, Lima, of Peru did not carry a single heater core- for ANY make or model of toyota.

Actually those seem to be more popular in Paraguay than elsewhere, yet in Peru, Colombia and Venezuela the gassers used to be quite popular. Uruguay and Argentina used to be the strongest markets for Diesel-engined anything, but it's no longer the case in Uruguay because of overtaxation of Diesel cars (only trucks and commercial vans are easily available with Diesel engines in Uruguay now, yet gassers are not so uncommon as they used to be in the '90s and early 2000s), and in Argentina due to the cost of modern Diesels compared to a port-injection gasser with natural aspiration (and the ease to adapt a carburettor if the EFI fails in the middle of nowhere).

I was trying to break a high altitude record on a moto so we had a ton of gear on the vehicle, it was way too small for all the gear, tools, parts. The volcano we used at for the record attempt, Ojos del Salado, was 160 miles one way from the nearest gas station or drinking water source. The logistics were pretty insane to be there- just food, fuel, waterwise. This is why I am going back in a gas engine. I want one fuel for everything- the motorcycle, the car, the heaters.

Makes sense.

Base camp that any car can get to is at 14000 ft. There are progressively higher camps all the way up to 20k. Our diesel would not start above 15k, and would barely run/idle above that, clogging injectors and smoking us out badly.

Makes me wonder if resorting to kerosene would make it easier to run a Diesel in such an extreme altitude, just like truckers used to add kerosene to Diesel fuel during winter until some years ago.

New diesel are even worse- their emissions systems clog quickly.

Even on the beach a clogged DPF can already be annoying to deal with

Gas engines run fine up there. Even carbureted without touching the jets run, and better than diesels.

Sure they might run, yet adjusting the carburettor is worth the effort when you go through a much extreme altitude. I still remember when a tune-up prior to a road trip used to be mainstream, before EFI became widespread and better accepted by the average Joe.

All this to say that next time I'm not bringing a diesel. Another issue-the ford super duty basically doesn't exist down there- they have them in Argentina and Brazil but they are Fummins- fords with cummins.

Actually the previous generation of the Super Duty was a good seller here, not only in Brazil and Argentina. Brazilian versions were mostly fitted with Cummins 4-cyls, and a high-speed MWM straight-6 which was also fitted to some RHD versions exported mostly to Australia and South Africa. Gassers in Brazil were mostly grey imports, and a local version with the 4.2L Essex V6 which is extremely rare. In other countries such as Colombia, Venezuela and Bolivia, V8 gassers were more common than Diesels for the Super Duty.

If one were to bring down a 7.3 powerstroke you have basically zero parts availability. If you bring a ford 6.2 gas super duty you would have to source parts from the raptor, which are not all interchangeable.

Odd enough, the 7.3 Power Stroke was actually made near my hometown, as it was also fitted to the RHD F-250 and F-350 for export to Australia, even though the local F-250 never had it. Another application for this engine here was the International 4700 medium-duty truck which used to be assembled at the Agrale factory in Caxias do Sul, but parts are too expensive anyway. The HEUI fuel system was quite unpopular...

My next truck for south america therfore is probably going to be a F-150 3.5 ecoboost or 5.0 v8. That truck and those engines are what's most common in all countries, behind the Hilux, which is not available in the united states so it rules it out for me personally.

Maybe a Tacoma would be a safe choice, as it's also available both through official dealers in countries such as Bolivia or as a grey import elsewhere, not to mention the 2.7L 4-cyl and the 4.0L V6 were also fitted to the Hilux in South America. Even though now in Brazil the Hilux is only available with a Diesel engine, once in a while I still see some with the 2TR-FE engine. Not to mention I saw grey-imports and some models not available officially in Brazil brought by tourists from neighboring countries being serviced normally at Brazilian Toyota dealers. Sure some very specific parts may require a longer waiting, or sourcing through "unofficial" channels, but it's not impossible to overcome this issue.