Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2020, 03:42 AM   #61 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
gumby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Butte, Montana
Posts: 725

little jona - '91 Dodge D 250 first gen cummins LE
Team Streamliner
90 day: 23.4 mpg (US)

Little Jona airo modded - '91 Dodge RAM 3/4 TON D 250 2×4 AUTO
Pickups
Team Cummins
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

The Salted Hound Jenny. - '87 Dodge Ram 50/D-50 5sp 4X4
90 day: 20.24 mpg (US)

Jona Allison aero - '91 Dodge Ram D-250 Le
90 day: 20.76 mpg (US)
Thanks: 208
Thanked 427 Times in 278 Posts
Cool

. Show me a land speed record holder where cutting .002 CD is a huge gain that can cost $10,000's in r&d that is running a Tesla/ insight style wheel.
Or is the .002Cd gains from this style of wheels so insignificant that is not worth the $ investment to a team that has spent millions of dollars to to get .002 to go faster? Maby I'll be the one.
The world's fastest Honda Insight didn't even run Honda Insight Wheels


Got a BMW shirt that says" Good is the Enemy of Perfection. " let's face it most folks on here don't drive a Benz Beamer or Tesla, and good is better than not trying.

----
As mentioned the wheel that is perfect for position A is sub satisfactory for position B. Did Tesla test different combinations of wheels in different positions? if not then by standard it is not a valid test and must be thrown out with the bathwater and baby, as there might me more left on the table.


----
When teknomage2012 did his eggbeater Factory Nissan Leaf alloy wheel to 95% full disk (pizza pan left a 3/8-1/2" air gap around the circumference) circa 2014. It showed a l significant increase in kilowatts per mile .3-.5kw/mi. My theory is the wheel with behaving like a rotary air pump. Would be great for a performance application needing additional brake cooling flow but for a hypermiling Nissan Leaf they were thrown in the rubbish bin.

Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality

__________________
1st gen cummins 91.5 dodge d250 ,HX35W/12/6 QSV
ehxsost manafulld wrap, Aero Tonto
best tank: distance 649gps mi 24.04 mpg 27.011usg
Best mpg : 31.32mpg 100mi 3.193 USG 5/2/20


Former
'83 GMC S-15 Jimmy 2door 2wd O/D auto 3.73R&P
'79 Chevy K20 4X4 350ci 400hp msd custom th400 /np205. 7.5-new 14mpg modded befor modding was a thing
87' Hyundai Excel
83 ranger w/87 2.9 L FI2wd auto 18mpg on the floor
04 Mitsubishi Gallant 2.4L auto 26mpg
06 Subaru Forrester XT(WRX PACKAGE) MT AWD Turbocharged 18 plying dirty best of 26mpg@70mph
95Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 14-18mpg
04 Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 16-22mpg


  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gumby79 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-13-2020), easythereturbo (05-13-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-13-2020, 03:51 AM   #62 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
I really don't understand why people have apparently such invested emotional capital in this.

I couldn't care less whether full wheel discs or slightly open wheels are best for low drag.

I am simply reporting what the current technical evidence shows for road cars.
And that is that full wheel coverage is not always best for low drag.

[Shrug] Personally accept that or not as you wish, but don't tell others BS.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-13-2020), easythereturbo (05-13-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 04:43 AM   #63 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
Quote:
I couldn't care less whether full wheel discs or slightly open wheels are best for low drag.

Here's my next set. What color should I powdercoat them?
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-04-2021)
Old 05-13-2020, 04:46 AM   #64 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post

Here's my next set. What color should I powdercoat them?
On the Beetle? Black? (But I always kind of dislike black wheels on cars, with very few exceptions.) So, boring old silver.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
freebeard (05-13-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 05:57 AM   #65 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
gumby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Butte, Montana
Posts: 725

little jona - '91 Dodge D 250 first gen cummins LE
Team Streamliner
90 day: 23.4 mpg (US)

Little Jona airo modded - '91 Dodge RAM 3/4 TON D 250 2×4 AUTO
Pickups
Team Cummins
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

The Salted Hound Jenny. - '87 Dodge Ram 50/D-50 5sp 4X4
90 day: 20.24 mpg (US)

Jona Allison aero - '91 Dodge Ram D-250 Le
90 day: 20.76 mpg (US)
Thanks: 208
Thanked 427 Times in 278 Posts
It's that the number one rule is testing is required, ABA is preferred, backed up with long turn tank to tank results .

Everything is a suggestion and requires testing to determine if it fits in your use case, as you and I have come to the conclusion of on YouTube, not every rule Works in every use case .

----
This will be a good throttle stop test for anyone who happens to have an Insight with Factory wheels and a roll of duct tape to add to the knowledge.

Would higher % throttle be better in this instance?

Accuracy check: The smaller the Delta Cd the higher the speed/throttle % is needed to make it show above the noise.

Why am I so passionate about aerodynamics and learning in general because they said it's a waste of time just drive the thing, and then they are astounded at the results. Driving is my therapy, the more efficiently I can make my tool/truck the more therapy I get, it's a bang for the buck kind of thing. Yes I could trade my multi-tool in for a single-use tool commuter car but that kind of ties my hands on doing things that make me, me.
__________________
1st gen cummins 91.5 dodge d250 ,HX35W/12/6 QSV
ehxsost manafulld wrap, Aero Tonto
best tank: distance 649gps mi 24.04 mpg 27.011usg
Best mpg : 31.32mpg 100mi 3.193 USG 5/2/20


Former
'83 GMC S-15 Jimmy 2door 2wd O/D auto 3.73R&P
'79 Chevy K20 4X4 350ci 400hp msd custom th400 /np205. 7.5-new 14mpg modded befor modding was a thing
87' Hyundai Excel
83 ranger w/87 2.9 L FI2wd auto 18mpg on the floor
04 Mitsubishi Gallant 2.4L auto 26mpg
06 Subaru Forrester XT(WRX PACKAGE) MT AWD Turbocharged 18 plying dirty best of 26mpg@70mph
95Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 14-18mpg
04 Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 16-22mpg


  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gumby79 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-13-2020), California98Civic (05-13-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 09:46 AM   #66 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Absolutely gumby79.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #67 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: pacific
Posts: 32
Thanks: 9
Thanked 25 Times in 14 Posts
So much win here on page7. Good enough > perfection. Emotional investment.. and black wheels so so trendy. But to each.

I feel the same way about large wheels, so trendy. But what sells on the showroom floor matters to car makers more than anything. Understandably. So wide glossy black 22x10's sticking right up to the fender edge it is. Aero be damned.

Here is one for anybody who thinks you need huge wheels to have a sporting time in a car..



IMO the FRS dev team got it right when they spec'd skinny LRR tires as standard on that one. And the fun to fuel cost ratio on that vehicle happens to be very high.
__________________
99% bev now
1% other junk
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to easythereturbo For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-13-2020), kurzer (09-29-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 01:43 PM   #68 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
downside

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimRogers View Post
The only downside of this testing data is that Lockheed Marietta's wind tunnel is not a rolling road type. Without the wheels turning, one of the most important factors of how the turning wheel interacts with the windstream is not represented in the test.

Speaking of windstream, the Windstream wind tunnel in Concord, NC is a modern, full scale rolling road wind tunnel.
The only way to factually determine a 'downside' is, to re-test the Pontiac at Windstream,with and without rotation,and publish the difference.Otherwise,it is scientifically impossible to know,one way or another,and pure speculation on your part.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 01:50 PM   #69 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianEdgar View Post
It's actually even worse than that because that car wouldn't have had an underfloor design anything like most of today's cars. (Tesla found the undercar flow influenced the best design of wheel.)
Speculation.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 02:03 PM   #70 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianEdgar View Post
I really don't understand why people have apparently such invested emotional capital in this.

I couldn't care less whether full wheel discs or slightly open wheels are best for low drag.

I am simply reporting what the current technical evidence shows for road cars.
And that is that full wheel coverage is not always best for low drag.

[Shrug] Personally accept that or not as you wish, but don't tell others BS.
When you refer to what was, in it's day,state of the art data,acquired in world class facilities,and then characterize members who share it as broadcasters of BS,at least,in my experience,it evokes a need to offer a counterfactual counterpoint,or else,you come off,exactly the same way.Not once,have you offered a single example where the data presented has been found to represent a quantitative excursion beyond the standard deviation,experienced between one tunnel and another. You've proved nothing.Bring us the empirical evidence unless you want the accuser to suffer the same judgement as the accused.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com