Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free > Open ReVolt: open source DC motor controller
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-30-2011, 09:51 AM   #81 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 159
Thanks: 0
Thanked 32 Times in 27 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
It seems to me that you could do a near equivalent of the desat detection in software. If the overcurrent was tripped, mark the time. If current doesn't get under control in a certain amount of time, open the main contactor, because a tripped overcurrent circuit without reducing current would imply a shorted igbt I suppose. It would be slower than the desat detection I think, but that may not matter.
That's not quite the same as desaturation detection.

Desaturation detection samples the voltage drop across the device when it's supposed to be fully on. If it rises above the desired level, you turn the device off.

One effect this has is to protect against an output dead short, where the device's on resistance is the largest in the circuit. But it also protects against unstable operating regimes e.g. oscillations at exactly that operating point.

A desat detection circuit can be as simple as a diode, resistor and capacitor. The resistor is attached to the gate drive, the diode cathode to the collector/drain, and the capacitor to ground. When the gate drive is high, the resistor charges the capacitor up. When the capacitor reaches the voltage of the collector (plus a diode drop), it stops charging and has a sample of the device voltage drop.

The RC constant isn't critical. It should be long enough to compensate for the brief period that the gate drive is high but the device hasn't turned on. And the voltage shouldn't sag too much while the gate driver is off, but it shouldn't so long that the detection is slow.

The circuit can be improved with additional parts: a matched diode in series with the sample output to compensate for the diode voltage drop; diode+resistor pair in series with the gate drive so that the capacitor doesn't discharge quickly when the gate drive is low. But it's best to start with the simple three component version and see if there are problems rather than reinvent a complex sample-and-hold.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DJBecker For This Useful Post:
MPaulHolmes (05-30-2011)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-21-2011, 10:31 AM   #82 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 16
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Could someone help me out? I purchased some components a couple years ago.

Powerex 600A 1200V IGBT
Powerex BG1A PCB
Powerex M57962L IGBT Driver Module
Powerex VLA106-15242 Isolated DC-DC converter

Can I use these components as part of the Re-Volt Controller, or do I need something else.

Thanks

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:22 PM   #83 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
am I missing something?

Hi Guys, not sure if I am missing something but what's the point in building your own DC-DC to drive IGBTs again? I mean these are $10 parts at digikey and such - all integrated, with +15/-15V outputs which a perfectly suitable for IGBT modules with +-20V gate drive limits... You can get a 2W version which is sufficient for driving a 400-600A module at up to 12-15kHz (there is no point in using anything higher than 10kHz anyway for a motor controller - you only end up multiplying switching losses). If that's not enough, for ~$25-30 you can get a 10-15W version which can drive an array of enough IGBTs to produce output currents that you shouldn't be trying to produce anyway ;-))

I'm not trying to be a pain but just trying to understand if I am missing some additional motivation...
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:28 PM   #84 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Charlton MA, USA
Posts: 463

EVVette - '71 Chevy Corvette Coupe
Thanks: 31
Thanked 183 Times in 94 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by valerun View Post
Hi Guys, not sure if I am missing something but what's the point in building your own DC-DC to drive IGBTs again? I mean these are $10 parts at digikey and such - all integrated, with +15/-15V outputs which a perfectly suitable for IGBT modules with +-20V gate drive limits... You can get a 2W version which is sufficient for driving a 400-600A module at up to 12-15kHz (there is no point in using anything higher than 10kHz anyway for a motor controller - you only end up multiplying switching losses). If that's not enough, for ~$25-30 you can get a 10-15W version which can drive an array of enough IGBTs to produce output currents that you shouldn't be trying to produce anyway ;-))

I'm not trying to be a pain but just trying to understand if I am missing some additional motivation...

The main purpose behind the dc-dc converter is for the AC controller where you need 4 to 6 of them.

-Adam
__________________
www.EVVette.com - 1971 Corvette Coupe Conversion to all Electric!
www.AdamBrunette.com - Machining, CNC, Robotics and Electronics.

You can download RTD Explorer for the Cougar controllers at www.EVVette.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:51 PM   #85 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanks Adam - got it. Still, it's a $7.34 part (in quantity of 10, 102-2096-ND on DigiKey) that's not going to fail on you, does not need to be debugged, switches at 1-2MHz and is super-compact, can be placed right at the tiny PCB sitting on IGBT terminals, etc. By the time you are done with all the components you need to create a 14-output DC-DC (7 +X V, 7 - X V), I doubt you will be saving more than $10, if that...
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 06:19 PM   #86 (permalink)
PaulH
 
MPaulHolmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maricopa, AZ (sort of. Actually outside of town)
Posts: 3,832

Michael's Electric Beetle - '71 Volkswagen Superbeetle 500000
Thanks: 1,368
Thanked 1,202 Times in 765 Posts
It has to act as a supply for a high side driver. So it has to be able to handle the output "ground" wildly changing. Most DC-DCs are completely insufficent for that. One that does work is something like the VLA106-15151, which is $18 in quantity 12. The isolation rating is for 2500v for 1 minute, and in real life it can do that all day long:
Digi-Key - VLA106-15151-ND (Manufacturer - VLA106-15151)

You really have to get the DC-DC, take it apart, and see how they do the isolation of the coils. Lots of chinese DC-DCs just wind the secondary right on top of the primary, and the isolation just comes from the enamel on the wires.

1000v isolation in real life translates to blowing up at around 200v according to Otmar. He had to move up to 2500-3000v isolation because DC-DC components kept failing that were rated for 1000v isolation.
__________________
kits and boards
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 06:35 PM   #87 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
1000v isolation in real life translates to blowing up at around 200v according to Otmar. He had to move up to 2500-3000v isolation because DC-DC components kept failing that were rated for 1000v isolation.
Got it! Thanks Paul. Makes total sense now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 01:38 AM   #88 (permalink)
PaulH
 
MPaulHolmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maricopa, AZ (sort of. Actually outside of town)
Posts: 3,832

Michael's Electric Beetle - '71 Volkswagen Superbeetle 500000
Thanks: 1,368
Thanked 1,202 Times in 765 Posts
Hi madmike. Yes, I think you can make use of all those things!
__________________
kits and boards
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 11:04 AM   #89 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 16
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks...

Now, I just have to figure out how to make it work with the Revolt controller board, and what else I need to make it all come together.

Reading Time!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2011, 12:14 PM   #90 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: INDONESIA
Posts: 40
Thanks: 20
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
DEar mrbigh (so sorry gentleman, I am not allowed to sent PM yet...)

I just finished Paul&sabrina 144V/500A DC controller. Now I am preparing to next with IGBT. I have 2 hitachi 1200V/1200A. I would like to buy 2 PCB and BOM.
Please submit invoice in to my paypal : ksaworo@yahoo.com
including the shipping cost to :
Kukuh Saworo
GrhaXL lantai 7 Mega Kuningan
LOT E4-7 No.1
JAKARTA 12950 - INDONESIA
phone : +62818260026

looking foward to hear from you.
bestregards and many thanks,
Kukuh Saworo

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com