Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2018, 02:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 678
Thanks: 20
Thanked 146 Times in 130 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Charlie View Post
What if we (somehow) ran a duct from the inner wheel well back to the rear of the car into a low pressure area.
Skin friction on the inside of the duct would likely steal all of the gain, Probably better to exhaust the front wheel wells like the Viper does. Turbine blade rear wheels could pull air from outside the body across the brakes, and out the low pressure area at the rear of the car, though, again, I don't know if the gain in efficiency at the rear of the car would be more than the power lost sucking the air through the wheels.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-06-2018, 12:41 PM   #42 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,692
Thanks: 7,775
Thanked 8,584 Times in 7,068 Posts
This describes Morelli's FIAT Punto.

I can't find a picture onsite that isn't Photobucketed, but here's a relevant link: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post259470. 2nd hand is hearsay but it suggests:
Quote:
Adding a centrifugal fan to the rear wheels so as to draw air from the outside through the wheel yields a 5kW savings for the 240 W expended (20.8:1 advantage) by the following:

a: narrower wake due to air suction
b: a major decrease in base drag
c. suppression of jetting vortices by means of the Coanda effect.
Also:
Quote:
Probably better to exhaust the front wheel wells like the Viper does.

This plows the air out from under the car, and constitutes the outer fence of a diffuser.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
"We're deeply sorry." -- Pfizer

Last edited by freebeard; 03-06-2018 at 12:49 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 01:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
UFO
Master EcoModder
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 179 Times in 138 Posts
It occurs to me that cooling air for the brakes is often ducted from the air dam, I've seen that on a lot of track-only cars. Perhaps this would contribute to higher pressure in the wheel wells and ducting up would help cool the brakes more effectively.
__________________
I'm not coasting, I'm shifting slowly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 11:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
JackMcCornack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 179
Thanks: 5
Thanked 39 Times in 23 Posts
Back to the original question: On race cars, front fenders are vented on top to reduce lift. Jim Hall started it in 1966 (Chapparal 2E--the first high winged race car, among its many other innovations). For about a year, he let people believe the vents were to control tire temperature; clever guy, that Jim Hall.
__________________
Modding MAX, a Kubota-powered classic sports car
http://www.kineticvehicles.com
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JackMcCornack For This Useful Post:
aerohead (03-17-2018)
Old 03-08-2018, 08:04 AM   #45 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMcCornack View Post
Back to the original question: On race cars, front fenders are vented on top to reduce lift. Jim Hall started it in 1966 (Chapparal 2E--the first high winged race car, among its many other innovations). For about a year, he let people believe the vents were to control tire temperature; clever guy, that Jim Hall.
Interesting, I guess somebody had to be first.

Post 4 of 35
More Areodynamic & Air Management thinking - Wheel well body vents - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
Quote:
Chaparral 2e front wheel well vents
CAR blueprints - 1967 Chaparral 2E Can Am OW blueprint

This is the earliest front wheel well venting that I remember ever seeing. Mid/late 60's. I had the slot car version at the time. Jim Hall worked closely with GM Engineers providing back door support, so the aero ideas might have even come from GM.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 03-08-2018 at 08:11 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2018, 01:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,222 Times in 4,649 Posts
duct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Charlie View Post
Thanks, aerohead. I hadn't thought of the rain aspect. That would be a sight to see!

Racecars are so beguiling. They look so sleek and sexy, yet so many of their features don't translate to FE on our daily drivers.
But
What if we (somehow) ran a duct from the inner wheel well back to the rear of the car into a low pressure area...
The size of duct to make a difference would probably make it not feasible.
Without a pressure profile for the car,you'd be running the risk that air from behind the car would actually flow 'forwards' in the duct, towards a relatively lower pressure area up front.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2018, 03:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,692
Thanks: 7,775
Thanked 8,584 Times in 7,068 Posts
Similar to the hood 'vents' on the MGA. They flowed opposite to expectation.

There was an advertiser in Hot VWs in the 80s that had a picture they ran every month of Beetles racing in the rain. The rain flying off the windshield at right angles to the air flow reached two or three feet in the air! Would that I could find that picture today.

__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
"We're deeply sorry." -- Pfizer
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (03-17-2018)
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY: plastic rear wheel skirts (Geo Metro) MetroMPG DIY / How-to 57 06-12-2014 09:16 AM
Help with my aero mods: 1.8L 05 Auto Toyota Corolla blackjackel Aerodynamics 73 11-22-2011 09:55 PM
Rear wheel skirt / cover question pasadena_commut Aerodynamics 5 02-16-2009 04:50 AM
Suspension Dams on Production Cars Arminius Aerodynamics 19 08-13-2008 02:49 PM
Wheel wells awillard69 Aerodynamics 10 04-26-2008 05:06 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com