Reflections upon being “nice” and being banned

[Thymeclock]

Recently I was banned from this forum for a week because I said some comments in response to others on this list that were being provocative and inflammatory, and who were allowed to do so with the tacit approval of the administration. The only reason I was given by a moderator upon my being banned and silenced was that I should “be nice”.

Is being “nice” a requirement on this list? What does “be nice” mean? Who is the judge of what “niceness” is? I suspect that being less than “nice” is anything that displeases a moderator acting as Nanny. Only Nanny the moderator knows whatever his arbitrary definition of what niceness is: there is no objective standard here other than it being anything that displeases Nanny. IMHO, that is what is imposed in places like China, where those in authority use censorship and intimidation in a forcible attempt to keep everyone in line – particularly anyone who might say anything that might be an embarrassment to those in authority.

The moderator previously suggested to me that I am a “troll”. Indeed I do have a personal commitment to insisting that I have the right to respond in a civil way to provocative statements made by others. So does responding make me a "troll"? If I had never contributed anything to this list other than to be provocative, and if it amounted to nothing more than that then that might be plausible; but if you were to review ALL of my posts and their content you would find that is not the case at all. It is remarkable that a moderator labels only the respondent as being a “troll” here, but never the provocateur.

I cannot be “nice” to suck up to anyone’s arbitrary idea of “niceness”, nor would I ever want to be “nice” in that way. I cannot and I will not submit to any nebulous demand for it.

To those who run this list I suggest that you reconsider the arbitrary policy of banning and silencing members based upon a lack of “niceness” as it is fundamentally untenable. The command to “be nice” may be effective with gullible young children who are easily cowed and intimidated. But if you continue the attempted intimidation of adults, treating them as if they were children, it will have consequences.

[MetroMPG]

I cannot be “nice” to suck up to anyone’s arbitrary idea of “niceness”, nor would I ever want to be “nice” in that way. I cannot and I will not submit to any nebulous demand for it.

Fair enough. Good bye, again.

I considered a point-by-point response to what you have written here, but it's just not worth the effort.

Suffice to say that the overwhelming majority of other members have figured out (intuitively, or otherwise if they're not naturally inclined) how to interact productively with others. Sorry, you haven't.

[ecomodded]

The flavor of the site seems to be one of abrupt correctness
with no attempt at politeness. Almost every post is someone correcting someone else with less then pleasant wording.
ie: I get my best mileage during spring.
answer: makes no sense are you keeping records?

Everything is a argument rather then a proper discussion with statements like :I have found" or in my experience i have noticed the opposite( rather then You got it wrong use the search function that's what its for)
I myself am making a effort to improve my posting manners, To be more aware of my choice of words
and tone. I want to have a persona that is not annoying, So i am trying! Arrogance is a flaw that can only annoy.
Thymeclock i wrote not at you but about myself.
I know your pain as you watch others misbehaving you cannot help but speak up, turns out it just makes matter worst and sinks one to the level they disapprove of themselves.

[redorchestra]

i was once banned from a different site for telling someone that their post sounded bigoted. I was banned. It really hurt me and I did some soul searching and some research. I never went back to the site because i still thought the post sounded bigoted. Notice i did not say they were a bigot, i didnt even say the posting WAS bigoted. I just decided that a community that stuck up for people who think like that is not for me.

I also understand that someone pays for these forums to be hosted. They are not just found spaces that spring up. They are carefully crafted communities and the good ones have great moderators who set the general tone. I find this site to have a pretty good tone and most people are pretty helpful. I have seen my share of discussions that go haywire, but t is important to stick to the main point made by the OP and not get off topic into screaming matches.

[Rokeby]

I value this site's overall "Just the facts Maam, just the facts," * style.
(* Sgt. Joe Friday, original TV Dragnet series.)

But I admit it, that I also enjoy it when a personal details creep in.
i'm thinking of Piwoslaw's mention of Mrs. P and p, the little P.
Likewise Old Mech's Dad. (I hope I got that right. )
It makes me feel like it's a real person out there.

More to the point, there is an art to being able to pleasantly disagree with
someone whether in a face to face meeting, in a letter, or on the "Net. For
the most part, good politicians, priests/clerics, and good teachers learn how
to do it early on if they are to be successful. And after a while they do it
without thinking about it.

Good communicators realize that there are two parts to any communication;
the message/meaning/meat and the presentation. It is the communicators
responsibility to craft what they say in a way that their messsage will be
listened too, even when it is not what the receiver may want to hear. This is
not a compromise or a sellout.

An otherwise on-topic, relevant, and factual message gets nowhere if it is
presented in an abrasive, demeaning, holier-than-thou, or know-it-all
manner. On the other hand, a weak message can win a reprieve and a
chance for clarification of ammentment if it has a mature, calm, non-
judgemental presentation.

Good communicators do not use "red flag" or "hot button" emotionally
charged words, even when angered or frustrated. There are some pretty
universal such words; level of intelligence words, racial or sexual orientation
slurs. There are also additional such words for specific audiences.

"Know your audience" is just as important as knowing your enemy...

Likewise, knowing your moderator(s).

It's a real challenge.

[MetroMPG]

Rokeby: well said.

For the record, it eats me up whenever we (moderators) get to the point of possibly banning someone. I really, really, really don't like doing it. (Ask Tim - daox - how much time I spent talking it over and discussing options, and probably boring him close to death. Also, there's a moderators-only subforum where we talk through these things as a group.)

So if I'm the one doing the banning, I always contact the member privately first, in the hopes of addressing the problem. Doesn't always work. (Happy to say sometimes it does, though.)

Fortunately banning is very rare. We're now in our 4th year here, and I can count on one hand the number of people who have been banned for reasons other than being spammers. It's never taken lightly.

[NeilBlanchard]

I am a moderator on two other forums (SilentPCReview.com and ApteraForum.com) for many years, and I know some of the difficult considerations that are required to do a good job. Mix in the hard stuff with the mundane and boring and non-stop effort to fight Spam, and I hope that folks will realize what it takes to have an energetic and helpful "place" like this EcoModder.com forum. I know that there were at least two people banned in this situation, and so I think it was handled fairly.

We need to agree or disagree without being disagreeable. We need to discuss/debate/argue without being personal, or uncivil. Something I have learned that may help others, is by admitting to your mistakes and by acknowledging when others are correct, and admitting when you don't know something or making your own counter-arguments -- all *helps* your own credibility.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Also, there's a moderators-only subforum where we talk through these things as a group.)

Group therapy for mods

Originally Posted by Rokeby

But I admit it, that I also enjoy it when a personal details creep in.
i'm thinking of Piwoslaw's mention of Mrs. P and p, the little P.

That was Arragonis, with Mrs A and A Jr.
But now that I have a son...

[vrmilionzx]

I like seeing threads like this in forums. I'm a member of several other automotive forums, mostly performance, and there seem to be quite a few people who forget how to communicate; whether they agree or disagree with the person they respond to appears to be irrelevant.

Seeing something being openly discussed like this, where even the mods come in to further explain the way they approach banning makes me happy to be a part of this forum. It seems to me that most of the people here are willing to share information, correct others, and be corrected without making attacks or saying things in an unnecessarily crude or crass way.

It's nice to see (even more) proof that this forum is a community, reaching for a good common goal, and not just a bunch of people being obnoxious to one another.

[Christ]

We're as classy as politicians, with having the ability to tell someone to figuratively "get lost" in such a manner that they look forward to the trip.