Turbocharging? Vacuum? Too much thinking. Smart people unite

[ar5boosted]

So, I have been looking lately at one new Suzuki, it's a resurrected old model.

- Suzuki Baleno MPG - Actual MPG from 13 Suzuki Baleno owners

I had the old model which got 25-30mpg. The new model has ie 2016/2017 now gets 44mpg.

The engine size went down from 1.6 to 1.0T but I know for a fact that these new cars are not driven softly. What are Suzuki doing ?

This new turbo baleno and vitara are now very close to being as economical as the 2003-2015 models of Prius Toyota Prius MPG - Actual MPG from 5,977 Toyota Prius owners . In fact you could read them as being the same.

My half-baked idea is that although turbo-engines not stressed running at a vacuum, it's not the air-pressure that's causing the vacuum but the fuel. If you stop providing the fuel the engine stops.

So would it be-possible / has-it-been-tried to run a convential ICE with inlet-manifold boost and a very small amount of fuel, say only just enough to keep the cylinders firing? Then simply really slow down the fueling and manage temperatures.

This would equal a high-efficiency high-compression engine right ? Obviously this requires computers that do custom thermal management and not thinking like "oh just richen everything up to cool the cylinders".

If not this, then what are Suzuki doing ? :-)

[RustyLugNut]

Look up links to pgfPro's turbocharged lean burn Talon. It is a goldmine of practicality and theory.

If you boost your spark ignited engine at cruise, you need to control your fuel mix and ignition timing or your engine produces more power than needed and you have to throttle the airflow.

However, if you enter the lean burn mode and produce just enough torque at cruise, you can control that said torque with your boost levels to some degree without the use of much throttle and the attendant pumping losses.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by ar5boosted

So, I have been looking lately at one new Suzuki, it's a resurrected old model.

- Suzuki Baleno MPG - Actual MPG from 13 Suzuki Baleno owners

I had the old model which got 25-30mpg. The new model has ie 2016/2017 now gets 44mpg.

The engine size went down from 1.6 to 1.0T but I know for a fact that these new cars are not driven softly. What are Suzuki doing ?

This new turbo baleno and vitara are now very close to being as economical as the 2003-2015 models of Prius Toyota Prius MPG - Actual MPG from 5,977 Toyota Prius owners . In fact you could read them as being the same.

My half-baked idea is that although turbo-engines not stressed running at a vacuum, it's not the air-pressure that's causing the vacuum but the fuel. If you stop providing the fuel the engine stops.

So would it be-possible / has-it-been-tried to run a convential ICE with inlet-manifold boost and a very small amount of fuel, say only just enough to keep the cylinders firing? Then simply really slow down the fueling and manage temperatures.

This would equal a high-efficiency high-compression engine right ? Obviously this requires computers that do custom thermal management and not thinking like "oh just richen everything up to cool the cylinders".

If not this, then what are Suzuki doing ? :-)

Not quite; emissions have to be considered as well, and running lean burn (which is basically what you're considering) has not only detriments to emissions (higher NOX, IIRC) but also diminishing returns.

Once you go past a certain AFR, things like piston design and fuel injection location start to matter more and more and more. Again, it takes a certain amount of fuel at a certain AFR to generate a certain amount of HP which is needed to not only ensure the engine keeps running but also to keep the car going forward; past 60 MPH (as I'm sure you're all aware by now) aero starts to become a major factor in how much power (fuel) is needed.

As for limiting fuel but not airflow, that's actually how diesels run (they are fuel metered, not air metered and most of them don't even have throttle plates or anything to limit airflow at all). Trying to run a gasoline engine like a diesel will result in cylinder temps that skyrocket and/or detonation.

I have actually experimented on my own car with different mixes of fuel, lean burn, VVT/ignition tuning, and even hot air intake and I can assure you there are limitations to what can be done *and* that those gains will plateau. I was able to get to 400 miles to the tank; about 28 MPG highway @ 75 with AC on through mountainous terrain) on a 50/50 mix of 91 and e85 where other owners can't even get 300 miles per tank in the same conditions.

[ar5boosted]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Look up links to pgfPro's turbocharged lean burn Talon. It is a goldmine of practicality and theory.

I found his thread : http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-28776-43.html

That's basically the information that I was looking for. He's done a great job one that Talon. Interestingly it has a 4G63 which is the same engine as my old Mitsubishi van.

I don't have access to paint thinners but pgfPro talks about using a lean+boost concept to bring the vehicle up to speed. ~40mpg would be good if I could get that on my car so we'll see.

[teoman]

Would removing an intercooler act as a warm air intake on a turbo non diesel engine?

[Enki]

Yes but it's likely to harm your engine if you even think about going past about 1/4 throttle. Turbo outlet temps can be in excess of 400, depending.

[teoman]

A partial/active grill block for the intercooler?

Harlan was doing just that, but water injection instead of an intercooler.

[Enki]

Water/alcohol injection can work well, depending on the ratios and amount injected. I've done the same (for reasons other than MPG; the intercooler is normally on the top of the engine for this car):

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by Enki

Yes but it's likely to harm your engine if you even think about going past about 1/4 throttle. Turbo outlet temps can be in excess of 400, depending.

If you have a few psi of boost at cruise with an engine that is needing to only produce 15 or so hp, there will be only a mild heating of the intake air by the turbo compressor. Couple this with homogeneous lean burn and you will not have to worry about damaging temperatures. Of course, you will have to find some way to change your parameters once you leave light cruise and start demanding more power from the engine.

[Enki]

Heat will build up, however. That's the reason I swapped the intercooler back in once ambient temps climbed past 90 on the regular; not a big fan of seeing 180 degrees at the manifold during city driving.