2nd gen Toyota Prius pedal sticks even after servicing, guy survives - Page 2 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

comptiger5000 · 03-10-2010, 07:36 AM

The biggest problem with this is not whether or not it happens, but that people are too stupid to do anything to save themselves. If the throttle were to get stuck open on my Jeep, there is no way the brakes would stop the thing, it's too overpowered. It would be - Click ignition off, shift to neutral, let engine spin down, click ignition back on (ignition off before neutral to avoid bouncing the rev limiter at WOT).

cfg83 · 03-10-2010, 02:44 PM

comptiger5000 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by comptiger5000

The biggest problem with this is not whether or not it happens, but that people are too stupid to do anything to save themselves. If the throttle were to get stuck open on my Jeep, there is no way the brakes would stop the thing, it's too overpowered. It would be - Click ignition off, shift to neutral, let engine spin down, click ignition back on (ignition off before neutral to avoid bouncing the rev limiter at WOT).

Yeah, but in this post I found my "smoking gun". The claim is that you *can't* shift in neutral (at least, from my understanding, above a certain speed) :

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83

Hello -

Ok, I think I found what I was looking for :

The Lawyers Behind the Toyota Floor Mat Recall - FOXBusiness.com

Quote:

Feb 12, 2010 (PRWeb.com via COMTEX) ...
The Johnson case against Toyota would take less than 12 months to settle with an agreement of confidentiality. "I believe that Toyota did not want to answer questions in this case," added Franecke. Those questions surround the push button that kills the engine after it is held down continuously for 3 seconds. At 120 miles an hour, you can travel 500 feet or nearly the distance of two football fields before the car coasts to a stop.

Second, you cannot stop a vehicle with brakes if the accelerator is jammed. Each pump of the brakes is less effective and the amount of force necessary to stop the wheels at 120 miles an hour is nearly impossible for most drivers. You will fry the brakes as Mr. Gomez did in the Johnson case. Third, you cannot get the car out of gear. In the Camry, once the car is moving and accelerator depressed you cannot get it out of gear. It is locked in and won't move out of the automatic position. This is a transmission design. Placing torque on the accelerator will not allow it to move out of gear. Lastly, attorneys Mann and Franecke were prepared to ask and delve into why the Toyota accelerator jams so much? Was it a mechanical or electrical problem?

This is what I was looking for. The Camry transmission, *by design*, will not allow you to go into neutral when the car is under acceleration. I am betting the Lexus transmission is the same. It's not necessarily a software issue, but it is a design issue. They are probably trying to protect the transmission, *by design*.

...

CarloSW2

NeilBlanchard · 03-10-2010, 08:45 PM

In a Prius, you can shift it into neutral, and this overrides the throttle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_03...eature=related

You can also shut it off at speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N22L...eature=related

You can also override the throttle with the brakes (I hope the investigators in CA see this!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiSQe...eature=related

cfg83 · 03-11-2010, 12:36 AM

Neil -

Yes, you are right. I finally got the scoop on this from the LA Times today :

Runaway Prius driver: 'I was laying on the brakes but it wasn't slowing down' - latimes.com

Quote:

When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse. The floor mat, he said, wasn't interfering with the gas pedal.

"It was accelerating out of control. Period," Sikes said.

So, he had all the options that you are presenting, but he was too scared and not trained to use them. The YouTube video is at least a semi-controlled event. The person was trying to prove a point, and also getting some practice at the same time. You can fault the fellow for not "practicing or preparing" to turn off the car, but I think that's a separate issue. In today's driving schools, I don't think most people are being trained for this.

Ha ha, instead of the Corbomite Maneuver, maybe they will start training for the Toyota Maneuver.

CarloSW2

Frank Lee · 03-11-2010, 12:38 AM

I've seen several people on different forums say they thought the steering would lock up if they "did anything".

cfg83 · 03-11-2010, 12:43 AM

Frank -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I've seen several people on different forums say they thought the steering would lock up if they "did anything".

Oh yeah, count me in on that. When I turn off the key to EOC, I always have a small risk of that happening.

For these engine-off buttons, it's "logical" to think that the steering wouldn't lock because the key is not being turned. But how do you know unless you do the test?

CarloSW2

Frank Lee · 03-11-2010, 12:45 AM

Because the key has to be out AND it has to be in park (a/ts) first?

cfg83 · 03-11-2010, 12:48 AM

Frank -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Because the key has to be out AND it has to be in park (a/ts) first?

I agree, but again, you're assuming that people are going to know that and do the test. I'm not. They are "doing stuff" based on knowledge of how their previous car worked.

CarloSW2

Frank Lee · 03-11-2010, 12:49 AM

I am talking about any car, as they have been for many decades.

cfg83 · 03-11-2010, 12:51 AM

Frank -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I am talking about any car, as they have been for many decades.

I've been driving a car since 1984, and I am not sure it works that way on all cars. But you are smarter than me on all things automotive, so I am sure you are correct.

CarloSW2