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Old 10-13-2021, 01:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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40-page aero booklet

This is a power-packed 40-pages!
https://www.torstenkanitz.de/AP09_Ka...erodynamik.pdf

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Old 10-13-2021, 06:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The Mercedes Cabrio Air-Cap [p. 38] is one of my favorite things, an example of a semi-permeable screen as an aerodynamic feature.
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Old 10-15-2021, 11:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wunderbar.
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Old 10-20-2021, 12:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you for sharing this. That was interesting. Looks like a compact car or a sedan should have no problem reaching ~0.18 Cd and remain practical to use on a daily basis.

The problem is keeping the marketing people and planned-obsolescence fetishists from butchering it to the point that it has nearly double that value. That's been the problem at least since the 1970s, probably longer.
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Old 10-20-2021, 12:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Cd 0.18

If 'HOLLYWOOD' could write Cd 0.18 vehicles into movies inhabited by the likes of Vin Diesel, Daniel Craig, and Dwayne Johnson, it might 'permit' 'manly-men' validation should they choose to consume such products.
Coming from Mars, I have no idea what motivates female consumers.
Auto makers, presenting such vehicles at the annual car shows, might realize more favorable reactions from show-goers should the motion picture industry, or Ad Council, help 'prime the pump.'
The 'arithmetic' is good with aero cars, but buyers seem to purchase on emotion.
Also, if public schools could incorporate aerodynamics into its STEM curriculum, students would be able to take aerodynamics home, to share with their parents.
Putting 'grownups' into a big-screen/ little-screen- informed student, aerodynamic sandwich.
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Interesting, glad I'm a native german speaker.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The 'arithmetic' is good with aero cars, but buyers seem to purchase on emotion.
Which is why a sexy streamlined sports car shouldn't be hard to build, and sell. Do emphasize the "streamlined" part, and the sexy can follow quite readily, as the Alfa Romeo BAT, Porsche 550, Alfa Romeo Disco Volante, Maserati Birdcage, Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 Stradale, Opel Eco Speedster, Volkhart Sagitta, Citroen DS, Mercedes C111-III, and many other streamlined designs widely considered to be "beautiful" can attest.

A functional light-weight design could see a 2,000 lb Miata-sized sports car reach 200 mph on a 200 horsepower 2.0 inline-4 and do 0-60 mph ~5 seconds if it had a Cd of ~0.18 and a frontal area ~18 sq ft. Would easily get 70+ mpg highway and 40+ mpg city with attention to gearing and ECU mapping. It would practically sell itself on those merits, especially if it could have a Miata-like price tag. It would only need enough downforce for stability at terminal velocity, and wouldn't need to go full retard with the downforce in the name of cornering, so really a well-designed front end for ground effects and a rear diffuser with the body itself fully tapered in the name of low drag would likely be just enough to have a net amount of downforce at speed, even if it's a tiny amount, with the front and rear designed to spoil crosswinds without appreciably adding drag.

A 660cc turbodiesel Kei Car limited to 64 horsepower, designed to weigh around 1,300 lbs, might be able to do 0-60 mph ~8 seconds and top out ~160 mph if it had a Cd ~0.15 and a frontal area of 12 sq ft. Could seat 2 in a squeeze, much like the Suzuki Cappucino. And it would probably get 120+ mpg.

Take it a step further and turn the above Kei Car into a narrow 1-seater modeled after a velomobile and made for a much tighter fit than the original VW 1L concept, with a Cd ~0.11 and a frontal area ~7 sq ft, weighing in around 350 lbs, and now you have a little mid-engined rocket that could accelerate like a supercar and get 500+ mpgs.

Either of the above mentioned ideas could be made to mimic the shape of the Panhard 66C and evoke many of the sexy styling cues and curves from a Ferrari 250GTO fastback, Jaguar D-Type, Porsche 550, Maserati Birdcage, or Alfa Romeo Disco Volante, while still attaining the desired low drag.

Of course, a timeless design means there's no reason to keep changing the styling to sell more cars... thus it's no surprise why such things are fought hard against within the industry in a paradigm of planned obsolescence. Where timeless designs do appear, it is almost exclusively found in cars that cost well into the 6-figures that will sell limited amounts, since if you make a sexy car for the plebes that doesn't easily go out of style and rivals the 6/7-figure hypercars in a beauty contest it makes it harder to justify the exorbitant prices of the boutique halo cars.

All of the design-by-committee crap ubiquitous within the auto industry for the last half century or more exemplifies the total exclusion of imagination within the industry, to the detriment of everyone and the planet.

Fingers crossed that the supply line disruptions will worsen to the point that they finally consign most of the automakers to the dustbin of history where they belong so that they're no longer an impediment to progress(and they can take their fugly overweight CUV blobs with them as they try not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out). One can dream at least. The reality is more likely that the government will keep bailing them out with our tax dollars when the upper middle class that drives most new car purchases can no longer obtain credit for their overweight, overpriced, resource-hogging crap anymore.

Last edited by The Toecutter; 10-21-2021 at 02:26 AM..
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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shouldn't be hard

Exactly what Hucho said in 1986. It would just be a matter of the 'design specification,' as, even at that time, there were zero technological impediments, even for Cd 0.09.
China could do it by edict. They have the power to rationalize all industrial design, for all classes of vehicles, as has been done historically elsewhere.
Wall Street would lose it's mind! As would 'Madison Avenue.' Entropyphiles, ditto.
' The storekeeper endeavors to create demand.' ( from Sergeant York )
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Old 10-22-2021, 11:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Problem is, that the price of fuel is so cheap compared to the price of a new car. (even in expensive fuel places like the UK, at currently £1.40 per litre) As a consumer spending $30 000 on a car that gets 35mpg vs $35 000 on a car getting 70mpg, which one is the average consumer going to buy? Where is the ROI for development vs adding electronics like cruise control, auto-start stop, ipod connectivity etc.

Consumers want larger and larger cars with more electronics and cupholders. I don't think in the lifetime of the pure ICE we will see much of a shift towards very low drag and low frontal area.

The trend is towards larger cars that are more aerodynamic, but due to greater frontal area, are no more aerodynamic than the equivalent car years ago. Isn't the original golf similar in CdA to the new golfs?
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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There is often a gap between perceived value and measured value in purchasing a vehicle. Wheelbase, mass, seat height, and head room may sway a buyer as much or more than average annual costs per mile.

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