46 to 61 mpg European Volkswagen AG for sale cars much better mpg than usa models

[ausias]

You can use google to translate this links and the unit conversion tools to understand figures.

Some tips on translating fuel consumption:

- the same car with average 34 mpg EPA rated (6.92 L/100km) using EU rating is about 5.0 L/100 km. Differences between homologation could allow proportional unit conversion of the average consumption because of arithmetrics. I realized after the explantion of not that "yes, we can" convert but I invested a lot of time on wrting this post. But in this post I will compare highway/extra-urban values.

- but it will be useful to know that "Consumo Extraurbano: ... L/100km" or "Consumo Interurbano: ... L/100km" means fuel consumption at 93 km/h (57.8 mph) cruise speed with no wind, hot engine, and a temperature of 20 º C (68 ºF). Sometimes "L/100km" is only "L" or "l". "Consumo" means average fuel consumption in L/100 km.

- according to law's laberynth defined in 715/2007 CE regulation and the NEDC (Desmitificando el ciclo de homologación europeo (NEDC) in spanish) it's mandatory doing your own on road data measurements and you will obtain the empirical extraurban cycle equivalence to 93 km/h cruise speed. (The average speed on cycle is 63 km/h but mean force equals the force at that speed as I measured on 4 cars and vans using OBDII Vag-Com interface)

- "Ficha Técnica" means Technical specifications or data.

- EPA higway equivalent cruise speed (calculated from equivalent drag force when empirical fuel consumption equals EPA rated (Detailed Test Information), i'm doing PhD as physicist) is aprox. 123 km/h (76.5 mph). Conversion calculations:
"XX.XX..." [EPA equivalent USmpg] = (173)/ ("extraurban european f.c." L/100km )


Example: Volkswagen Lupo 3L: e-u fc = 2.7 L/100km equals 87 us mpg but will be around 64 us mpg if EPA higway homologation was used.

- VAG makes include low consumption version with names: Seat ... Ecomotive, Volkswagen ... Bluemotion, Skoda ... Greenline, Audi ... e (a lot of <140 g CO2/km):

These cars (small, large, suv, state, hatchback...) are selling now in Spain with extraurban fuel consumptions of 52 to 78 mpg on European Extra-urban (doing some magic calculations it will be a range EPA higway equivalent of 38 to 57 us mpg):

Volkswagen:
Precios de Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales
Volkswagen España
Car configurator: Volkswagen España

Seat (spanish VAG manufacturer):
SEAT.es -> START
SEAT.co.uk -> HOME in english

Skoda:
Homepage ?koda Auto -
Precios de Skoda Fabia Fabia GreenLine nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales
Precios de Skoda Octavia GreenLine nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales
Skoda Octavia RS 2.0 TDI CR 170 CV DPF ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Precios de Skoda Superb GreenLine nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales 16.2 ft long extra large car
Skoda Yeti GreenLine 1.6 TDI 105 CV ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77 SUV
Precios de Skoda Yeti nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales all turbo engines very efficient SUV

33 us mpg higway EPA equivalent, 7.3 s 0 to 62 mph, 140 mph max speed.
Skoda Fabia RS 1.4 TSI 180 CV DSG 7 vel. ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Audi:
km77.com. Audi A4 2.0 TDIe. Modelo 2009. Información general.
Audi A4 2.0 TDIe 136 CV DPF ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Audi A6 2.0 TDI 177 CV ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Audi A6 3.0 TDI 204 CV ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Audi TT Coupé 2.0 TDI quattro DPF ficha técnica, prestaciones, consumos, dimensiones de este coche - km77
Precios de Audi A1 nuevos. Ofertas y descuentos oficiales

And last a very efficient van (equivalent eficiency is founded in Renault Master, Iveco Daily, Fiat Ducato...)
Volkswagen Crafter (Light Truck Van, same as MB/Dodge/Freightliner Sprinter) 22-24 us mpg EPA equivalent with 163 cv biturbo 2.0 4L:
Motores < Nuevo Crafter < Modelos < Bienvenido a Volkswagen Vehículos Comerciales.

Maybe this post will become two separated post. One for European vehicles and one for fuel consumption conversion European/USA/Australia/Japan/etc.

[ausias]

I will explain in further post how I did the conversion calculations. A good and easy conversion formula between EPA or EU average fuel consumption is as follows:
EPA(usmpg)= 205.87/EU(L/100km)
EU(L/100km)= 202.04/EPA(mpg)

this method has only +- 14% error because of big differences between city homologation cycle. This error is around +-3% for EU 3.5 to 6.5 L/100 km (or EPA around 27 mpg).

[Arragonis]

There are some differences between the ECE tests and the us EPA ones, but the general cycle of official vs real world tests holds true. Diesels and hybrids tend to do better in reality than government ones, and petrol tends to do worse. (Mrs A's Prius in my garage is due to zero hypermiling...)

There are a lot of cars available in Europe which have US equivalents but are not offered there. You can pretty much go through the alphabet and choose every letter where there is a maker on both sides of the Atlantic and there will be a smaller and more economical one in Europe compared to the ones in the US.

The makers come from everywhere - Europe, China, Korea, Japan - loads of those, India even.

Reasons given so far :

"Americans need so much more performance that Europeans"
Every time I have driven in the US I have driven at European speeds (where possible) and every time I have passed others more than I have been passed. I have had to undertake SUVs on US freeways just to make progress.

"Americans won't buy Diesels"
But VW, Mercedes and BMW are selling loads of them. Oh and there are loads of Pickups with Diesels in them - old and dirty ones mind.

"Americans won't buy smaller cars or smaller engines"
How many GEO Metros were sold ?

"Americans need trucks / SUVs every day"
Nonsense, sheer nonsense. People who haul stuff or tow every day as part of their business or job maybe, but Mr Suburbs commuting to the office and back really needs a Suburban (which is a carp vehicle by any definition BTW).

"Americans can only drive autos"
EM'ers seem to be able to manage changing gear themselves, and those who can't (either because of their cars or what they know) lament this "advance" all the time and want a manual so they can take control. Those with manuals already do a very good job at it

"Americans need A/C"
Yet, Europeans near the Med or the Adriatic have equally high temps to deal with an quite a few have managed with no A/C for decades. They have a longer life expectancy too (than us northern Europeans too) - healthier way of life, better diet...

If you want to explore these in English (kudos to the OP though) then just put your fave maker with .co.uk into Firefox. e.g. Toyota UK - New cars, Used cars, Reviews and Test Drives | Toyota UK, or Hyundai.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

There are some differences between the ECE tests and the us EPA ones, but the general cycle of official vs real world tests holds true. Diesels and hybrids tend to do better in reality than government ones, and petrol tends to do worse. (Mrs A's Prius in my garage is due to zero hypermiling...)

There are a lot of cars available in Europe which have US equivalents but are not offered there. You can pretty much go through the alphabet and choose every letter where there is a maker on both sides of the Atlantic and there will be a smaller and more economical one in Europe compared to the ones in the US.

The federalization rules prevent manufacturers form selling every engine option. Each engine/transmission/body combination has to be emissions tested, FE tested and have 4 separate crash tests done.

The makers come from everywhere - Europe, China, Korea, Japan - loads of those, India even.

Reasons given so far :

"Americans need so much more performance that Europeans"
Every time I have driven in the US I have driven at European speeds (where possible) and every time I have passed others more than I have been passed. I have had to undertake SUVs on US freeways just to make progress.

What can I say, we're suckers for cheap horsepower. I can drive off a dealer lot with a new 300hp mustang for $22k. Fuel economy be damned, I want to have some fun. You guys want to suffer in some 1.0 punishment box? Go right ahead. Every time they jack up the fuel taxes in Europe and average consumption drops, the more cheap fuel I can buy here. Isn't globalization great? So thank you. Tonight I'll do a smokey burnout in honor of your sacrifice.

"Americans won't buy Diesels"
But VW, Mercedes and BMW are selling loads of them. Oh and there are loads of Pickups with Diesels in them - old and dirty ones mind.

Diesel fuel costs 10% more than gasoline in most of the US. Diesel cars account for less than 1% of total US sales. The only truly popular diesel engine is the Jetta wagon at 80% and that only because the standard 2.5 engine is crap. Theres plenty of gasoline and hybrid competitors that make that TDI looks pathetic.

"Americans won't buy smaller cars or smaller engines"
How many GEO Metros were sold ?

Not nearly enough to sustain the brand. The only reason it even made it to the US was to help GM meet its CAFE requirements. Most were sold at a deep discount.

"Americans need trucks / SUVs every day"
Nonsense, sheer nonsense. People who haul stuff or tow every day as part of their business or job maybe, but Mr Suburbs commuting to the office and back really needs a Suburban (which is a carp vehicle by any definition BTW).

Nobody buys a truck because they 'need' it. Its a toy. Good luck convincing Americans to give up pickups and SUVs.

"Americans can only drive autos"
EM'ers seem to be able to manage changing gear themselves, and those who can't (either because of their cars or what they know) lament this "advance" all the time and want a manual so they can take control. Those with manuals already do a very good job at it

Again, good luck convincing Americans to switch. Besides everybody knows autos are more efficient than manuals these days.

"Americans need A/C"
Yet, Europeans near the Med or the Adriatic have equally high temps to deal with an quite a few have managed with no A/C for decades. They have a longer life expectancy too (than us northern Europeans too) - healthier way of life, better diet...

This just sounds like a rant. Have you had your fiber this morning?
I'm not giving up AC. 75f and my AC is ON full blast. I don't care how much gas it uses, I don't want to sweat in my car.

[greenkz]

i feel that most americans are stuck in their old ways. i see evidence of that everyday working at an autoparts store. you see the same people repairing the same cars everyday, mostly american cars. they have low expectations of the vehicle, if it makes it to 100k miles its a great car, if they get 20mpg fantastic!! low expectations. people make fun of my geo tracker, and i tell them when your vehicle gets 34mpg like mine come talk to me.

[WD40]

IMHO Americans take what is shoved down their throats, rather than tell the auto makers what they want.

[greenkz]

i think alot of americans dont know what to buy and just go with the flow,media, hype etc... so to speak. there are better choices out there but they dont educate themselves. there are reliable cars out there, there are cars i rarely sell parts for. there are cars that get better than average mpg. i hear some people say they cant afford to get rid of their gas guzzler, but with the cost of constant repairs and the mileage they get out of it i cant see how they can afford to keep it.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by tjts1

The federalization rules prevent manufacturers form selling every engine option. Each engine/transmission/body combination has to be emissions tested, FE tested and have 4 separate crash tests done.

What can I say, we're suckers for cheap horsepower. I can drive off a dealer lot with a new 300hp mustang for $22k. Fuel economy be damned, I want to have some fun. You guys want to suffer in some 1.0 punishment box? Go right ahead. Every time they jack up the fuel taxes in Europe and average consumption drops, the more cheap fuel I can buy here. Isn't globalization great? So thank you. Tonight I'll do a smokey burnout in honor of your sacrifice.

Diesel fuel costs 10% more than gasoline in most of the US. Diesel cars account for less than 1% of total US sales. The only truly popular diesel engine is the Jetta wagon at 80% and that only because the standard 2.5 engine is crap. Theres plenty of gasoline and hybrid competitors that make that TDI looks pathetic.

Not nearly enough to sustain the brand. The only reason it even made it to the US was to help GM meet its CAFE requirements. Most were sold at a deep discount.

Nobody buys a truck because they 'need' it. Its a toy. Good luck convincing Americans to give up pickups and SUVs.

Again, good luck convincing Americans to switch. Besides everybody knows autos are more efficient than manuals these days.

This just sounds like a rant. Have you had your fiber this morning?
I'm not giving up AC. 75f and my AC is ON full blast. I don't care how much gas it uses, I don't want to sweat in my car.

This pantload came from an EMer?

Ohhhh, you were being sarcastic! Got it.

[ausias]

I'm wondering if anyone clicked on the links. I think that European cars can increase MPG in 33% (reduce fuel consumption in 25%) only with some drag reductions and rolling resistance tires and gear ratios optimization as showed within the links. And there is the possibility of doing even better because cd of 0.19 to 0.25 is easily achivable and tire rolling resistance of 6.4 to 10 in Newton/1000kg in a wide variety of low rolling resistance to Ultra High Performance tire. These performance were sold or thay are being sold now, but not all the optimizations in one pack. That disporsion is causing an additional 30% of fuel consumption being misused. In total, we could save 50 to 60% energy consumption (or increase 100-150% american mpg) with nowadays engeenering.

Why Ford Focus RS 305 bhp, 0to60:<6s., does an equivalent EPA of 34 mpg and a Ford Mustang V6 305 bhp, 0to60:<6s, does a 25 mpg EPA average? Ford Focus with and optimized and cheap addons from Econetic version will be around EPA 59 mpg. Why not a Ford with 305 bhp, 0to60 in less than 6 s, with 50 mpg EPA average? They showed capable of doing that, what are they waiting for?
22000 $ Mustang is on sell in Europe Concesionario Especializado Ford Mustang | Mustang Europa | Ford Mustang | Mustang | Corvette | Coches Americanos | Shelby | Comprar Ford Mustang | Venta Ford Mustang | Venta Mustang | Ford Shelby | Mustang 1967 | Coche Americano | Venta de Coches Am around 33.000€ (44000$) because we have more federal taxes and higher salary and money. Ford Focus RS costs 30.000€ in spain.

Ford Focus Coupé RS equipamientos de serie y opcionales de este coche. Packs de opciones - km77
km77.com. Ford Focus RS. Modelo 2009. Información general.

Toyota Prius in Spain is selling at 34000$ a 50% more than usa.

[ausias]

Originally Posted by greenkz

i think alot of americans dont know what to buy and just go with the flow,media, hype etc... so to speak. there are better choices out there but they dont educate themselves. there are reliable cars out there, there are cars i rarely sell parts for. there are cars that get better than average mpg. i hear some people say they cant afford to get rid of their gas guzzler, but with the cost of constant repairs and the mileage they get out of it i cant see how they can afford to keep it.

this characteristic behaivour is shared with the other cars markets. Here in Europe we have a few Toyota Prius cabs modded to plug-in and LPG (or GPL). The cars lasted more than 250.000 mi without any problem with 2.36 €/100 km running costs. But the whole majority ob taxi drivers , cab owners buys turbodiesel cabs with 9.88€/100 km costs. A Crow Victoria Cab in Spain will spend 35€/100km (around 23 $/62 mi in usa with usa prices, i will aprrciatte your own calculations for comparision).