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Old 11-19-2014, 11:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I was making a joke, but you guys are running with it. Morphing 3D polygons is trivial. Parametrics and procedural generation of e.g., rear-view mirrors keeps everything 'to code'.

Big data power is on the way, but meanwhile an intermediate step between wind tunnels and CFD would be desktop printed parts for a desktop wind tunnel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshsuzuk...ow=grid&view=0

Edit: Well I don't know about Yoshi Suzuka. All his work that had digital scales under each wheel is gone. There's just the one 'moving road' video.


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Old 11-20-2014, 05:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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seems like

Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
I wasn't aware there was any other way to do this than Navier-Stokes in 3d? I am an algebra guy so I have no idea how PDEs work nor do I know how this kind of stuff is implemented, but to do an optimization where the algorithm figures out a shape that works would be like running the model millions of times. If you made changes and then gave the data to someone else to modify, that would be the same as what people are doing now wouldn't it?

Seems like some of the millions going to wind tunnels should be funnelled towards research grants for figuring out a better implementation of the numerical solution to Navier-Stokes! 10 million dollars is good for like, 20 postdocs + faculty advising for 5 years. Between Toyota, Honda, Ford, Ferrari, GM, etc. + Boeing, Lockheed, etc. I bet they wouldn't have any trouble coughing up at least several times that number, and considering the cost of wind tunnel testing, I bet it would pay off.
Perhaps the Dept.of Energy could take the initiative with something like the Small Business Administration grants for energy-related research as DARPA has been doing for decades.
All the national laboratories were at the disposal of the Program For New Generation Vehicles in the 1990s.Perhaps they could offer supercomputer time.
And fund the algorithm research at universities which already struggle in their mathematics departments.
General Motors has made their Hughes Electronics CFD available to university solar teams whom lack on-campus wind tunnels.
Or maybe it's just a matter of speed.Most of my fluids texts wouldn't even get near the Navier-Stokes due to its massive computing load.
The funny thing is that Hucho's books provide enough recipes derived from empirical data,from which to design a car of any desired drag.
Some chiefs of design have already mentioned to the press that consumers should have no expectations for any 'grand gestures' when it comes to vehicle styling (aerodynamics).
The business model has been,and will remain, slow,incremental change.No revolutions.
Low drag is no mystery as far as manufacturing goes.What would we do without style obsolescence? Who'd buy it?
We can hardly reach any consensus even here at EcoModder.
I'll stop rambling.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Some chiefs of design have already mentioned to the press that consumers should have no expectations for any 'grand gestures' when it comes to vehicle styling (aerodynamics).
I just watched a video on Youtube called Everything Comes from the Streets (it's at /watch?v=9RAavisatXA). It's a story about how low-rider culture led to what I'd label 'social anarchism'.

Here's a pic that's on topic:



Just like a VW Beetle it uses a too-fast fall-off to point vortexes at the engine for cooling.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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any other way

Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
I wasn't aware there was any other way to do this than Navier-Stokes in 3d? I am an algebra guy so I have no idea how PDEs work nor do I know how this kind of stuff is implemented, but to do an optimization where the algorithm figures out a shape that works would be like running the model millions of times. If you made changes and then gave the data to someone else to modify, that would be the same as what people are doing now wouldn't it?

Seems like some of the millions going to wind tunnels should be funnelled towards research grants for figuring out a better implementation of the numerical solution to Navier-Stokes! 10 million dollars is good for like, 20 postdocs + faculty advising for 5 years. Between Toyota, Honda, Ford, Ferrari, GM, etc. + Boeing, Lockheed, etc. I bet they wouldn't have any trouble coughing up at least several times that number, and considering the cost of wind tunnel testing, I bet it would pay off.
One of the more recent Master's Thesis which employed CFD mentioned 3- programs other than the full-blown Navier-Stokes.
His output was 13% different than the empirical wind tunnel numbers and in his concluding remarks criticizes his own data.
In 1985,Hucho mentions in his 2nd-edition that they had just recently been able to do the full numerical work of the N-S Equation.
As computers gain speed and capacity this work may make it to a desktop environment.
As a lame duck president,Obama might use his resources to push for a 'moonshot' in computer processing.I'd be happy to pay some taxes for that.

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