Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-18-2011, 10:54 AM   #31 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
skyking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 1,399

Woody - '96 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 23.82 mpg (US)

Avion and Woody - '96 Dodge/Avion Ram 2500/5th wheel combo
90 day: 15.1 mpg (US)

TD eye eye eye - '03 Volkswagen Beetle GLS
90 day: 49.05 mpg (US)

Mule - '07 Dodge Ram 3500 ST
Thanks: 743
Thanked 528 Times in 344 Posts
Don't worry about the front, the dryden test and all the wind tunnel data scattered all over this site says otherwise. The 'money' is in the back

__________________




2007 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW 4x4 with 6MT
2003 TDI Beetle
2002 TDI Beetle

currently parked - 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins Turbodiesel
Custom cab, auto, 3.55 gears
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to skyking For This Useful Post:
HHOTDI (01-12-2013), orbywan (07-19-2011)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-18-2011, 06:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,442

2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,422
Thanked 737 Times in 557 Posts
Split A/C unit

Here's one post from a long thread on AIR regarding a split HVAC unit on an Argosy travel trailer (also diesel powered, no propane). Argosy was the bargain version of an Airstream, painted instead of shiny. (A custom build by a highly knowledgeable owner stretching himself. His tow vehicle carried a Mini Cooper and pulled the trailer. Great read).
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to slowmover For This Useful Post:
orbywan (07-19-2011), skyking (07-18-2011)
Old 07-19-2011, 07:00 PM   #33 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,228
Thanks: 24,375
Thanked 7,357 Times in 4,757 Posts
airdam

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbywan View Post
I didn't mean it's never been done before, I've just never seen one on an RV, except in PhotoShop. An 18" boat tail seems really short, but it was a short vehicle, goes to show how much they make a difference I guess.

Doing a belly pan on this RV is going to be a pain but I kind of have to finish it. If I put a full pan on it, should I also make a front air damn?
Both my CRX and T-100 both showed an improvement with an airdam even though they are both bellypanned.
Ford's Probe-IV had an active deployable airdam which lowered at speed to block air from under its fully bellypanned underside.
Many of the lowest drag concept cars will at least lower the car at speed to reduce airflow underneath.
So that's kinda a 'yes' for the airdam.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
BamZipPow (07-19-2011), HHOTDI (01-12-2013), orbywan (07-19-2011), slime (01-09-2020)
Old 07-19-2011, 07:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,228
Thanks: 24,375
Thanked 7,357 Times in 4,757 Posts
radii

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbywan View Post
I don't drive it much now but it's good knowing it's efficient for it's size. I still have to finish the A/C unit, skin the undercarriage (that's going to be serious fun) and do some mods to the front so I'm hoping there's better numbers ahead. Time will tell.

I was surprised the Dryden tests didn't show better numbers for rounding off the front, so I went after the tail first. I found another chart on a truck products company's web site, which I can't find at the moment, that shows rounding a brick shape object in the front reduces Cd by 50%, which I think is the way the average Joe thinks, including me until I tried the boat tail.

Anyway, I'm going to try several things up front, there's serious room for improvement there also.
Moller improved the Volkswagen 'brick' from Cd 0.76,to Cd 0.42 with front radii.
Walter Lay,in 1933,built a full-size brick on a GM truck chassis.Leading edge radii cut drag from Cd 0.88,to Cd 0.42.
In 1963,GM investigated 18-wheeler drag.A fully radiused front was just a smidgeon ( sp?) better than an 18-inch radius.
In 1936,Fachsenfeld modified an Omnibus bus,with an inflatable boat tail which brought the drag down to Cd 0.158.His tail is the best I've seen so far.It's in Hucho's book.
The NUNA-3 team boat -tailed 'everything' on the car and achieved Cd 0.077.
The back really is where the pot-of-gold it hiding.

Last edited by aerohead; 07-20-2011 at 06:52 PM.. Reason: mis-spelled word
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
HHOTDI (01-12-2013), orbywan (07-19-2011)
Old 07-19-2011, 09:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 245
Thanks: 111
Thanked 163 Times in 63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Moller improved the Volkswagen 'brick' from Cd 0.76,to Cd 0.42 with front radii.
Walter Lay,in 1933,built a full-size brick on a GM truck chassis.Leading edge radii cut drag from Cd 0.88,to Cd 0.42.
In 1963,GM investigated 18-wheeler drag.A fully radiused front was just a smidgeon ( sp?) better than an 18-inch radius.
In 1936,Fachsenfeld modified an Omnibus bus,with an inflatable boat tail which brought the drag own to Cd 0.158.His tail is the best I've seen so far.It's in Hucho's book.
The NUNA-3 team boat -tailed 'everything' on the car and achieved Cd 0.077.
The back really is where the pot-of-gold it hiding.
OK, I’ll play with the air dam when the belly pan is finished, thanks for the information Phil, and everyone else for weighing in on this, the comments and advice are very appreciated. I know enough to be dangerous at this point. I just spent the last few days before and after work building the front part of the A/C fairing, photos are below.

It was probably more trouble than it was worth but I wanted to add a rear looking roof cam to my system and this way I was able to incorporate that into the fairing. It’s kind of long but I still have room for solar panels. Probably would have been easier to just take it off and relocate it but it’s done for now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 38.jpg
Views:	525
Size:	89.5 KB
ID:	9027   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 39.jpg
Views:	530
Size:	57.3 KB
ID:	9028   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 40.jpg
Views:	510
Size:	73.7 KB
ID:	9029   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 41.jpg
Views:	494
Size:	64.2 KB
ID:	9030   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 42.jpg
Views:	510
Size:	63.6 KB
ID:	9031  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 43.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	9032   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 44.jpg
Views:	500
Size:	57.1 KB
ID:	9033   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 45.jpg
Views:	467
Size:	72.8 KB
ID:	9034   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 46.jpg
Views:	438
Size:	67.5 KB
ID:	9035   Click image for larger version

Name:	Aero RV 47.jpg
Views:	454
Size:	66.6 KB
ID:	9036  

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to orbywan For This Useful Post:
HHOTDI (01-12-2013)
Old 07-20-2011, 01:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
skyking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 1,399

Woody - '96 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 23.82 mpg (US)

Avion and Woody - '96 Dodge/Avion Ram 2500/5th wheel combo
90 day: 15.1 mpg (US)

TD eye eye eye - '03 Volkswagen Beetle GLS
90 day: 49.05 mpg (US)

Mule - '07 Dodge Ram 3500 ST
Thanks: 743
Thanked 528 Times in 344 Posts
Good looking work there man. Pic #6 took me back to 1977, R2D2 in the x-wing fighter
Shark-gill louvers on the back should allow the AC to work with that fairing on.
__________________




2007 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW 4x4 with 6MT
2003 TDI Beetle
2002 TDI Beetle

currently parked - 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins Turbodiesel
Custom cab, auto, 3.55 gears
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to skyking For This Useful Post:
mike_belben (06-04-2012)
Old 07-20-2011, 10:38 AM   #37 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 245
Thanks: 111
Thanked 163 Times in 63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyking View Post
Good looking work there man. Pic #6 took me back to 1977, R2D2 in the x-wing fighter
Shark-gill louvers on the back should allow the AC to work with that fairing on.
I love those domes, they're perfect for small stuff. Now that I've got an extra camera feed up there I can vent the rear cover and remove the tape from the A/C unit, mount a camera off to the side temporarily and watch it as it goes down the road to see if it's over pressurizing the cover or trying to come apart.

Once I'm sure the A/C unit can work properly I'll rebuild the rear cover with metal. That or remove it all together and replace it with a split unit like the one in slowmover's link, or a heat pump mounted in the top of the boat tail. This will have to do for now.

Next up is finishing the belly pan. This is where I wish I had a hoist.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #38 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,228
Thanks: 24,375
Thanked 7,357 Times in 4,757 Posts
Cd 0.07 AC unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbywan View Post
OK, I’ll play with the air dam when the belly pan is finished, thanks for the information Phil, and everyone else for weighing in on this, the comments and advice are very appreciated. I know enough to be dangerous at this point. I just spent the last few days before and after work building the front part of the A/C fairing, photos are below.

It was probably more trouble than it was worth but I wanted to add a rear looking roof cam to my system and this way I was able to incorporate that into the fairing. It’s kind of long but I still have room for solar panels. Probably would have been easier to just take it off and relocate it but it’s done for now.
According to Sighard Hoerner's book,your AC unit,with fairings should now be down around Cd 0.07.There is nothing lower out there.Sweet!
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
bespurcell (02-01-2015), orbywan (07-20-2011)
Old 07-20-2011, 07:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 245
Thanks: 111
Thanked 163 Times in 63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
According to Sighard Hoerner's book,your AC unit,with fairings should now be down around Cd 0.07.There is nothing lower out there.Sweet!
Cool, thanks Phil.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 02:26 PM   #40 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,442

2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,422
Thanked 737 Times in 557 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbywan View Post
Cool, thanks Phil.
Yes, thank you!

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com