Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2014, 03:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,268
Thanks: 24,393
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
Aerodynamic Research by Walter E. Lay,1933

I'm going to begin this thread and see if Al can get free to scan 5-drag tables I've put together over the last three weeks.
Walter E. Lay,of the University of Michigan,Ann Arbor,investigated road vehicle aerodynamics in 1933,publishing,"Is 50 miles per gallon possible with correct streamlining?",SAE-Journal,Volume 32,1933,pp 144-156;177-186.
I'm acquainted with Lay's work through Fachsenfeld's book,Karl E. Ludvigsen's SAE Paper# 700035,SAE Transactions,Volume 79,Part 1,1970,p.108-109,and Hucho's 2nd-Edition book.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lay used a multi-biometric wooden model of 1137mm overall length,230.7 mm height,and 238 mm width which could be configured with different lead and trailing architectures,allowing up to 16-different configurations
for automobiles alone.The models had softened noses,but other than that,parallel walls,front to back,top to bottom,no longitudinal edge radii according to Hucho.No wheel-houses,only simple wheel simulation. Depending on nose/tail combinations,the models drag would vary from Cd 0.35,to Cd 0.12
Three for 'vans',with drag of Cd 0.86,0,59,and 0.46,depending on edge radii,or lack thereof.
Lay's 'van' research led to a full-scale body with interchangeable components incorporated onto a 'normal,body-on-frame', Cd 0.61,1933 automobile of which the drag could be altered between Cd 0.86,and Cd 0.46,simply by softening or hardening the leading and longitudinal edges.Some contemporaries considered it a practical joke,just as with Fachsenfeld's/Kamm's 'Kamm-back' which 'followed on'' Lay's research.
In 1951,Professor M'o'ller at Germany's Braunschwieg Polytechnic came up
with almost identical values during his experiments with the Volkswagen Microbus.
Lay may have been using the wind tunnel of which the Ford Motor Co. would later use in the 1950s,a low turbulence,1/10-scale model tunnel of 5-ft by 7- ft test section,less than 1% blockage,wall-to-wall ground board,and up to 170-mph airspeed.(50-to-150 mph velocity provides satisfactory measurement accuracy).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of interest to EcoModders is the similarity in drag between the 'ideal' nose car,and 'contemporary' windshield cars of virtually identical Cd.This resonates with Hucho's comment of the mid-1980s,that the front ends of cars by this time were sufficiently good,that they would respond favorably to boat-tailing.The "technological feasibility" was not a question,but rather market acceptance,and the value placed upon low drag.This is why I keep doggin; the 'Template.'
Only a 1972 JEEP or HUMMER H-1 windshield could keep a car from achieving Cd 0.12 or lower.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al's printing books like a mad man,maybe he can shake free before closing time,hope so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------






PS For the last table,Lay only provided the Cd 0.08 streamline body of revolution in ground proximity.I've shown it in free flight away from the ground at the top,then moving into ground-reflection/mirror-image,then as an attached half-body,a half-body at similar ground clearance as other test models,and finally,with simple wheel simulation,as per Paul Jaray/Ludwig Prandtl,Edwin Rumpler,Fachsenfeld,Kamm,Read,Heald,Klemperer,etc. .)

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 03-22-2014 at 05:07 PM.. Reason: add image
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (04-01-2014)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-22-2014, 05:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,268
Thanks: 24,393
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
brain cloud

I forgot the composite model schematic,it's the only image which shows the plan-taper/boat-tailing Lay did.Al scanned it and I inserted as the 3rd-image down.
You can see how Lay could choose between 'noses' and 'tails'.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
freebeard (03-27-2014), gone-ot (03-27-2014), jedi_sol (03-24-2014), mikeyjd (04-01-2014), nemo (03-23-2014), slowmover (03-23-2014)
Old 03-27-2014, 06:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
Aero Wannabe
 
COcyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NW Colo
Posts: 738

TDi - '04 VW Golf
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 52.55 mpg (US)
Thanks: 705
Thanked 219 Times in 170 Posts
Great graphics Phil. Thank you for posting all these. I am a very visual person and your drawings make it easy to understand the research done by these great aerodynamacists. I know you have been saying it all along but it is still surprising to see that the ideal front end in illustration 4 has the same 0.30 cd as the regular windshield. They both decrease at about the same rate as the back is boattailed. Amazing!

I think it is time to boattail my Golf (which looks a lot like the car in illustration 4)
__________________
60 mpg hwy highest, 50+mpg lifetime
TDi=fast frugal fun
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post621801


Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2014, 07:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,268
Thanks: 24,393
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
surprising

Quote:
Originally Posted by COcyclist View Post
Great graphics Phil. Thank you for posting all these. I am a very visual person and your drawings make it easy to understand the research done by these great aerodynamacists. I know you have been saying it all along but it is still surprising to see that the ideal front end in illustration 4 has the same 0.30 cd as the regular windshield. They both decrease at about the same rate as the back is boattailed. Amazing!

I think it is time to boattail my Golf (which looks a lot like the car in illustration 4)
Yes,it must have been a great source of frustration to guys like Hucho who knew so long ago now,that we could just do the elongation at the rear and see REAL savings.
I'm working my way back to 1922,with Jaray's stuff,which inspired the 'Template'.
The Golf has a great 'Kamm' roofline and will react favorably to the length.Buchheim and his associates got as low as Cd 0.14 out of their boat-tailed VW models in 1981.They'd probably appreciate someone getting value from this sort of thing.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
COcyclist (03-28-2014), mikeyjd (04-01-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com