Ammonia as carbon-free fuel

[gone-ot]

...last I heard, "feet" still worked (wink,wink).

[RedDevil]

Raise from the dead, ye olde thread!
While ammonia has a lot of potential as a fuel, the primary problem is that its production is relatively inefficient.

Or should I say, was...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/22...ity-of-aarhus/

“We have a particularly effective technology here at Foulum [Denmark] that enables us to make ammonia exclusively from electricity from certified wind turbines, water and air. The method is far more energy-efficient than conventional ammonia production, which today accounts for as much as 1% of the world’s total energy consumption.”

It can now effectively be used in cars like this ammonia powered Toyota Mirai.
Forget plain hydrogen - ammonia is the future?


Ammonia is also dense enough to be practical as a shipping fuel. Cool it below -40 degrees, then it won't boil under atmospheric pressure; a ships ammonia tank would need an insulating layer, but that's not prohibitive.

But even if it wouldn't find its way as a fuel, if only the 1% of global energy consumption needed to produce it for current purposes (fertilizer, paint, chemical processing, ...) can go down substantially that already is a big thing.

[oil pan 4]

The most efficient way to produce ammonia right now is from natural gas.
If there was a cheaper more efficient way to make ammonia the petrochemical industry would be all over it since they have the bank and the current demand to make it happen.

[Taylor95]

Here's a crazy thought I just had:
Haha why not recycle urine and convert urea into ammonia? That would sure provide a substantial amount of ammonia for something. However, I'm sure the cost would be much higher than whatever you would get for it...

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The most efficient way to produce ammonia right now is from natural gas.
If there was a cheaper more efficient way to make ammonia the petrochemical industry would be all over it since they have the bank and the current demand to make it happen.

If the claims Lars Ditlev Mørck Ottosen makes are true this is the breakthrough they've been waiting for and things will move fast.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

Here's a crazy thought I just had:
Haha why not recycle urine and convert urea into ammonia? That would sure provide a substantial amount of ammonia for something. However, I'm sure the cost would be much higher than whatever you would get for it...

Urea is produced on an industrial scale from ammonia and carbon dioxide to be used as fertilizer. Soil bacteria reverse the reaction, providing ammonia as needed.
There is no practical use case for converting urea to ammonia (other than soil bacteria passing nutrients) that I know of.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by justme1969

Ammonia out.
Carbon based fuels running out.
Hydrogen usefull but not feasible.
Wind and solar is same but better just dont talk about the amount of carbon based fuels used to manufacture and maintain.
Geo thermal is very similar yet again different too in its quantifications.
Has anyone talked about the Vast Lakes of frozen Methane under the sea and also under polar caps?
It is supposed to be one of our end all situations as global warming causes melting and fracking even now it has been implied to be already started.
Why wait till later lets use it now and save carbon based fuels for thier own special purpose.

The climate scientists recommend transitioning away from all fossil-fuel combustion,plus removing existing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere,so methane as a fuel might be a hard sell.Unless we can master carbon sequestration.

[aerohead]

Anhydrous ammonia is lethal @ 5,000 ppm and 5-minutes exposure.The permissible limit is 25 ppm.
Overturned tanker trucks or rail cars could be potentially disastrous.
Same for an anhydrous ammonia pipeline.
There have been anhydrous ammonia explosions.
Ammonia is highly toxic,volatile,can blind,suffocate,burn,and kill.
While lighter than air,in the presence of atmospheric moisture (humidity)becomes heavier than air,settles,and displaces oxygen.
The liability of using ammonia as a motor fuel might scare off investors.Don't know.