Another one goes in the dustbin of EV history

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Honestly, who IS going to buy a 3-wheeler with restrictions, outside of niches like ecomodder ?...

I have to tap +1. In the UK we have had a load of 3 wheelers a lot of them made in my home town of Preston (Lawrie Bond designed a lot of them including the Bond Bug).

This is a Bond Minicar - the 2 stroke motorbike engine was mounted with the front wheel pulling the car along - like a road going bumper car.



The big issue with these was the tricycle layout - the 3rd wheel was at the front. This made them unstable and, well, useless really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=130OVZcMEcA

At the same time other 3 wheelers from overseas had the 3rd wheel at the back so the two wheels at the front with the most work to do (steering and braking) were at the front.



But lets me honest here, they were only bought as long as the supply of proper cars was restricted. As soon as Europe started to make 4 wheeled cars, including economy and cheap cars like the 2CV or original Fiat 500, Renault 4CV etc. these cars vanished asap.

They had a brief respite during the various oil crisis that we had between WW2 and the 1970s but they also died quickly when mainstream manufacturers caught up.

A few cars that killed them:









If you could have a full sized car for the same money and more or less have the same FE why bother with the problems of 3 wheels ?

Coming right up to date even if Aptera get going again somewhere else, even China, why bother ? If GM USA decided to import or make the Corsa in the US as a modern day Metro, or Ford imported the KA or Nissan the Pixo or Suzuki the Alto (both the latter 2 from India) then the Aptera is dead.

Just as dead as the Tucker or any other low volume high dream machine you could think of.

[Patrick]

I think the point of the Aptera was to make a car using Morelli's shape for a body of minimum drag, thereby maximizing the mileage potential. While other cars may get "good" mileage, they won't get as much as an Aptera could, theoretically.

[gone-ot]

...anybody else think this car (below) reminds them of the early Corvair, only taller?

[botsapper]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...anybody else think this car (below) reminds them of the early Corvair, only taller?

NSU Prinz 4's designer, Claus Luthe, was 'convinced' by NSU management to make changes to the design...after they visited the US and saw the Chevy Corvair.

[cfg83]

botsapper -

I have a nice little history on the Corvair that states this very thing. I'll post the blurb when I get a chance.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

CA is the most expensive place in the world to manufacture. They have done a very good job of making the state undesirable and unreasonably expensive for industry. Taxes, real estate, energy, state regulations, it's all WAY more costly than ANY other state. Any company is very smart to think twice about starting production there. Many established companies are also moving else ware to save costs. It's not BS, it's just the way it is.

6 months to take concept to production is unrealistic for most any product, especially something as complex as a car. This type of underestimation is VERY common and can be costly. I hope they can keep it together. It sounds like they are moving forward.

Any podunk welding shop can crank out trikes, and they are- motorcycle-trike conversions.

Aptera is a trike. It doesn't need to meet all the Fed standards for cars; in the eyes of the Feds it is a motorcycle. It should be relatively a piece of cake to put a new motorcycle on the road. Even the dummies up the road at Polaris did it.

Honestly, who IS going to buy a 3-wheeler with restrictions, outside of niches like ecomodder ?

Trike conversions seem to enjoy healthy sales in spite of their ridiculous pricing.

Trying to build anything like a car in California is a recipe for failure.

Isn't there lots of road-going stuff that gets built there? Off the top of my head I think of Zero electric motorcycles...

[Frank Lee]

Re: NSU, Corvair: There was one of those for sale nearby back in the day exactly like the pic, color and all... OH how I lusted after it!!! But coming fresh off the Spitfire owning experience (pre-internet days) I decided I did not need another FAIL in the driveway, as in 10x the difficulty in locating parts than for mainstream equipment. NOWADAYS I'd go for it!!!

[Frank Lee]

The big issue with these was the tricycle layout - the 3rd wheel was at the front. This made them unstable and, well, useless really.

I don't think delta or tadpole is the primary determinant of stability; the thing just needs to have the heavy end be the same end as the pair of wheels. Oh, and low Cg helps too.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I don't think delta or tadpole is the primary determinant of stability; the thing just needs to have the heavy end be the same end as the pair of wheels. Oh, and low Cg helps too.

From: Three-Wheel Vehicle Handling Characteristics:


A conventional, non-tilting three wheel car can equal the rollover resistance of a four wheel car, provided the location of the center-of-gravity (cg) is low and near the side-by-side wheels. Like a four wheel vehicle, a three-wheeler's margin of safety against rollover is determined by its L/H ratio, or the half-tread (L) in relation to the cg height (H). Unlike a four-wheeler, however, a three-wheeler's half-tread is determined by the relationship between the actual tread (distance between the side-by-side wheels) and the longitudinal location of the cg, which translates into an "effective" half-tread. The effective half-tread can be increased by placing the side-by-side wheels farther apart, by locating the cg closer to the side-by-side wheels, and to a lesser degree by increasing the wheelbase. Rollover resistance increases when the effective half-tread is increased and when the cg lowered, both of which increase the L/H ratio.



http://www.rqriley.com/images/fig-3whl.gif

[cfg83]

Me -

Originally Posted by cfg83

botsapper -

I have a nice little history on the Corvair that states this very thing. I'll post the blurb when I get a chance.

...

Here it is :

Automobile Quarterly, Volume VIII Number 4, Summer 1970
Remember the Corvair? Here's A Look At What We Lost


CarloSW2