That is it for Aptera

[Arragonis]

These



were all over Paris and Spain last time I was there (in July).

[botsapper]

All the rest will flip when hit from the side. The C1, ostensibly, (with 1300 lb-ft righting moment) remains vertical in a side impact (with the stabilizing torque able to overcome tire traction).

It will be interesting to see this market develop, assuming it does. On a twisty road, banking into the turns is certainly fun.[/QUOTE]

Very fascinating vehicles. Having ridden bikes, they tilt/lean for balance and feels natural. These gyro two-wheeled vehicles would behave like 4-wheeled vehicles. But have to set aside more e-energy to run the appropriate weighted gyros.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEg9dkmcH_A

http://www.youtube.com/user/Thrustcycle

[Frank Lee]

Was that the camera wobbling or the bike?

[botsapper]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Was that the camera wobbling or the bike?

...could have benefited from a Micro Gyro-stabilized cam.


Just noticed the REAR wheel steering. No wonder there are no 'handling' videos. Even gyro-stabilized, that weird setup could still be a FAIL. Since gyro-stabilized prototypes are rare, there could be impractical dynamics of a constantly stabilized vehicle. The NEED to change lateral directions could be counter-acted by the precession and may make it difficult to simply turn.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by botsapper

Very fascinating vehicles. Having ridden bikes, they tilt/lean for balance and feels natural. These gyro two-wheeled vehicles would behave like 4-wheeled vehicles.

They could be designed to stay vertical with respect to gravity all the time. But I think most are likely to be like the Lit, and tilt into turns (by actively controlling the gyro axes). Then you can use narrow tires, among other things.

This video of the C1 is pretty slick. (The crash between C1 and a Leaf is wildly optimistic, but it gets the idea across.)



That doesn't seem to play. Maybe this will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=xdmgDgcZfvY

[XprizeRoadTrip]

I had limited exposure to Aptera. Most was on the forum, and then there was a week at Xprize.

What I saw was a company vaporizing money needlessly as soon as Wilbur took over. I saw a few decisions that were frugal, but many were flat-out wasteful: The decision to rent a separate facility at Xprize, the flaunted catering while there, the new, big empty factory with top-shelf chairs, and the custom shaft driven bicycles to ride around Xprize and the factory, the rented trailer for public tour and all associated overhead, the big re-design to 2E adding unnecessary bloat and all costs associated with that, and now I see they were bleeding money into a 4 wheel design as well.

All I saw was a pretty car with mid-pack performance at Xprize surrounded by plastic PR smoke & mirrors with a herd of talented engineers trying to keep up with the PR hot air, trying compensate for the handling penalties of re-design, and trying not choke to death on the fumes of burning money. It was thick in the air at Xprize.

I cannot believe how much money they wasted. It's a shame. Edison2 was nearly the opposite. They were frugal and cheap on everything except the car. Every penny went into the vehicle.

Edison2 has been very quiet on their blog and facebook. Blog had one rushed, poorly written summary of 2011 after 2 months of silence, and the Facebook page is eerily quiet. Hope all is well.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by XprizeRoadTrip

Edison2 has been very quiet on their blog and facebook. Blog had one rushed, poorly written summary of 2011 after 2 months of silence, and the Facebook page is eerily quiet. Hope all is well.

Likewise, I hope they are doing well. Although we are competitors in similar markets, I have a lot of respect for what they are doing. When I fail to update my website, it usually means I'm too busy.

[NeilBlanchard]

I have corresponded directly with Oliver Kuttner, and they are very busing working on the VLC fourth generation, with Jason Hill of Studio 11 among others. The cars they had at X-Prize are 2nd gen. They are pursuing an even more efficient (AC?) electric drivetrain that is may be ~20% better than the DC motor they used. They had tried a Smart car engine (in a 3rd gen chassis) and it was overpowered.

Expect more good things from Edison2.

[XprizeRoadTrip]

Thanks Neil, I pretty much got your info below from surfing around. Didn't know the Smart engine was too much power though - LOL

My gut tells me they're doubling down on the consumer prototype and the upcoming crash testing to get things rolling in 2012.

Thanks for the updates.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I have corresponded directly with Oliver Kuttner, and they are very busing working on the VLC fourth generation, with Jason Hill of Studio 11 among others. The cars they had at X-Prize are 2nd gen. They are pursuing an even more efficient (AC?) electric drivetrain that is may be ~20% better than the DC motor they used. They had tried a Smart car engine (in a 3rd gen chassis) and it was overpowered.

Expect more good things from Edison2.

[Alcibiades Ramos]

I disagree with you in only one thing: the new management had a different agenda all together: Kill the Aptera.
Just look at their backgrounds and you will see who they were really working for.

Originally Posted by IamIan

just my 2 bits.

I think Aptera's mistake / cause of failure ... was the drastic change in production strategy.

Long ago , they had a small factory setup , tooled , etc ... the original concept was to produce small scale to start ... then later expand to a larger facility ... the small factory they had setup even had already begun to run and had produced a few of the first vehicles ... then new management had the bright idea to scrap the first factory and try to scale up to full size with the first product ... knowing they didn't have the capital or resources to be able to actually fund it ... they put all of their hopes on the idea that a government loan could cover the difference ... knowing full well the government loan required them to not need the loan ... which they did ... so they bluffed ... the bluff started to fall apart it was only a matter of time.

They bit off too much too fast... I think they should have just stuck to the original plan of starting off small scale production with the first factory that was already setup, tooled, and producing vehicles... sell them to the people who were on their waiting list.