Autoblog Article: Ways Automakers Cheat Fuel Economy Tests

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

They can't just make 100% gasoline Frank? Maybe I'm missing something on the "Ethanol as an Enhancer" front.

I just thought it was a stupid way to make a filler reducing the amount of gasoline we use. It takes mores energy and pollutes more to produce ethanol than just straight gas, and it has created havoc with the food industry.

I'm not sold yet on either side of the argument, largely because I don't feel I'm educated enough on it, but as I understand it some of the arguments for using corn ethanol are:

-Ethanol mixed gas burns a lot cleaner, and air quality in the U.S. has improved considerably since emissions became important
-Ethanol increases food costs, but it also reduces fuel costs which in turn directly reduces food costs, so it's not as bad as it appears at first glance
-After ethanol production, there's still edible parts left over which can be used as feed
-Ethanol doesn't hurt gas mileage as much as you'd expect (basically not at all in small percent blends) because it can be burned more efficiently than gasoline in engines designed to take advantage of its properties

[ChazInMT]

Fuel Injected Corn?

[Frank Lee]

Why shouldn't corn prices go up? From '99-'01 the price was the same or less than it was in '73. I'm willing to bet cost of production is higher now than it was 41 years ago. When the commodity is worth something the govt doesn't have to pay out via price supports.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Would you like to go back to MTBE or lead, or do you have a different idea?

Uhmm, I can buy unleaded, non-MTBE, ethanol free gasoline at a local station. It's not an illicit substance, it just doesn't have any corn in it.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Xist

I go through a box of Kashi in a day or two, usually two, but there are days when I eat an entire box in one sitting. Either way, it is fairly expensive, so I looked into making my own Kashi, and all that I found was "Kashi is poison!"

Poison, eh?

Poison - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Well, technically if you eat enough of it, it could give you terminal obesity :-)

Just about anything will hurt or kill you if you take too much of it. What amuses me, though, are the great number of things that are beneficial, or even absolutely necessary for life, in low amounts, but toxic at higher levels. Start the list with oxygen and water :-)

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Well, technically if you eat enough of it, it could give you terminal obesity :-)

Just about anything will hurt or kill you if you take too much of it. What amuses me, though, are the great number of things that are beneficial, or even absolutely necessary for life, in low amounts, but toxic at higher levels. Start the list with oxygen and water :-)

Or surgar.

[Xist]

So, what would happen if subsidies went away?

[CigaR007]

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing, and you are right, it really looks as if they are lurking on ecomodder and other efficiency-related forums. Deep down they know those tricks work. I say we demand an A-B-A wind tunnel testing from each and every automaker as a "thank you" gesture.

[niky]

Originally Posted by Xist

So, what would happen if subsidies went away?

Corn ethanol-specific subsidies, general corn farming subsidies, transportation subsidies or gasoline subsidies? Best to be specific, here...

Many first world countries, as the United States is (are... waited... are the United States a country or a confederation? Hmmm....), have high levels of farming subsidies.

Which, in turn, is why third world farming is so unprofitable. No way can your typical farmer pushing a handcart out in the sticks compete on price with a rich, industrialized farmer receiving generous subsidies from even richer taxpayers.

Which, in turn, is why they'd rather grown fuel crops to sell at higher prices to corporations rather than food crops which they can only sell for pennies on the pound.

Which, in turn, is part of why the food versus fuel debate even exists.

-

Errh... long story short: There are complex farming subsidies, with or without corn-for-fuel, and the ethanol policy only affects demand, not production price.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Would you like to go back to MTBE or lead, or do you have a different idea?

Lead is good for me. No thanks on mtbe or ethanol. I like to eat corn, not burn it. And I prefer drinking alcohol to burning it for that matter.