Automotive X-Prize: "The Very Light Car" (also very aero) with conventional engine

[NeilBlanchard]

Okay -- I asked them what their weight goal was (on Facebook) and they answered that it should not weigh more than 1,200 pounds, and they are aiming to be 1,000 pounds or less.

I also noticed on their web page that the engine is a single cylinder. Which makes all the "plumbing" even more mysterious.

And I've now asked how the front suspension is set up.

[cfg83]

NeilBlanchard -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Okay -- I asked them what their weight goal was (on Facebook) and they answered that it should not weigh more than 1,200 pounds, and they are aiming to be 1,000 pounds or less.

I also noticed on their web page that the engine is a single cylinder. Which makes all the "plumbing" even more mysterious.

1200 lbs without people? Ha ha, that's a Beck Porsche 550 Kit Car from the 1980's. Drop a Porsche engine into it and you have 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. In the mid 1980's.

CarloSW2

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by cfg83

They claim their brake rotors are 1/5 the weight of a regular car.

"Brakes that normally weigh 10 lbs are less than a pound".

I used 2kg of brake system mass, but maybe that's not fair. If the rotors are thermally coupled to the wheels, and the pads are thermally insulated from the calipers, they might be able to dissipate quite a bit more energy with the brakes than I give them credit for. Or maybe the Very Light Brakes fade when you do a panic stop or go down hills, even if you try engine braking with the Very Small Displacement Engine.

cfg, the standard American male is 191lbs, but it's probably smarter to design for the 90th percentile man. He's closer to 240lbs. Though that didn't stop Honda from selling a car (the Insight) with a 350lb payload capacity. Set two adults in it, and the ride quality suffers noticeably.

What a fascinating concept car, and look at all the speculation we are reduced to. Neil, you should invite the Edison team to join the discussion in this thread. I want to see their wheels and tires, and I want to know if any of their techniques can apply to my Insight.

[NeilBlanchard]

Okay, I got an answer back on the front suspension:

We really appreciate your interest in our vehicle and specifically the front suspension. We are not yet releasing details, but in due time, we will be sure to let you know of the specifics. It may be a bit obvious, but we do want to confirm that the suspension fits entirely inside of the wheel.

So, my guess is the trailing arm and spring/shock are at the outer end of the tube/strut, and they are tucked inside the wheel; which is why we cannot see them.

On the weight, remember that the original VW 1L car was 660 pounds, and it had carbon fiber, titanium, magnesium, drilled out bolts. It also had a single cylinder diesel, a 6-speed dual clutch transmission, side view video cameras -- it was unobtanium!

[NeilBlanchard]

An additional Facebook post from Edison2:

We would also like to confirm that we have used very little unobtanium in this vehicle. We are really enjoying the conversation on ecomodder.com, and wish we could tell you more about our design. The posts show a clear understanding of our design philosophy and the limitations imposed by physics.

[Bicycle Bob]

Now, here's a Very Light Vehicle: Driving the Spira 3-wheel prototype

You get enough strength to just get down the road from a box made of common styrofoam insulation with fiberglass tape reinforcing. The Unobtanium I'd like to see developed is foam with dispersed fibers to raise the physical properties. You can start your structural design as a whole-body bike helmet, and then see what else it needs. If it is plenty tough but not rigid enough for modern chassis tuning, a subframe can maintain wheel alignment, as on the Model "T".

[moorecomp]

From the website autocial.com:

About the engine: "And, while an electric drivetrain packages and is envisioned for the Edison2 (with a name like that…), the X-Prize contestant vehicle will be powered by a 1 cylinder turbocharged 250cc 40-hp Yamaha engine that operates without a throttle. Engine power delivery is regulated by altering the amount of exhaust-gas recirculation in the cylinder."

And the body: "The aerodynamic teardrop shape was honed by a Northrup Grumman expert, and boasts a Cd of around 0.15 (which would rise a bit if developed for production). Note the fixed wing-shaped outriggers supporting the wheels. These don’t move. A patented new suspension packages inside the wheel envelope, blocked from view (and the wind) by the enveloping cycle fenders (they’re mum on its design, but it must be like the Michelin Active Wheel."

The aero engineer was no other than Barnaby Wainfan ( Wainfan Home Page ). Cool!

[cfg83]

moorecomp -

Originally Posted by moorecomp

From the website autocial.com:

About the engine: "And, while an electric drivetrain packages and is envisioned for the Edison2 (with a name like that…), the X-Prize contestant vehicle will be powered by a 1 cylinder turbocharged 250cc 40-hp Yamaha engine that operates without a throttle. Engine power delivery is regulated by altering the amount of exhaust-gas recirculation in the cylinder."

...

Cool. This is vindication of theunchosen's no-throttle thread.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

Ha- cool they're on here!

Then I'll say that I like the pattern 1L set out with the exception of the unobtanium material choices. I think the whole thing could be done with conventional materials yielding a fantastic cost and repairability advantage with not much of a performance disadvantage.

On that note I believe that, from their very nature of being the interfaces on the front line between vehicle mass and outside environment, that wheels should be simple, cheap, repairable, and "expendable" (one of the reasons why I question electric hub motors even though I love the efficiency of the concept). Accidents and whatnot are tough on wheels. I think cheapy regular wheels would be a good thing to have.

A loaded four seater will have most of the mass as occupants and luggage anyway.

[cfg83]

Frank -

(I'm obsessed with the Beck 550 kit cars)

Do you think the 40-hp Yamaha engine would work fine in the 550 kit car? I mean, VW Beetles had 40 hp engines back in the day. At 1200-1300 lbs, the 550 could be a "thrifty looker", don't you think? It wouldn't be aero, but it could still get great MPG with a simple-to-repair VW suspension.

CarloSW2