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Old 05-03-2011, 03:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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...maybe we should make the U.S.Govt get "out" of our lives, and let us drive paper-thin, death-traps to our hearts' content, so that the "Annual Darwin Awards" could become universally commonplace "daily" awards?

...100 MPG and 100 MPH until "Dawin Awarded"?

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Old 05-03-2011, 03:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Have a question; why is it that when it comes to bringing the more fuel efficient cars, minivans, and trucks to the US market that the usual answer is that they don't meet the emission and crash standards? It doesn't make sense.
The cleanest European diesel are only rated ULEV in California while cars as 2000 prius and 2000 insight are rated SULEV, ie emitting much fewer pollutants, since 2000... Particles, NOx... are pollutants : they kill lifes, while CO2 isn't a pollutant as it doesn't kill anybody (by now... not the same song in 20 years...).

European have obsession about CO2 and diesel have always got the privilege to pollute more... Things seams to change and half a dozen French cities declared to ban old cars (not Euro 2 ie before 10/1997) from their roads before the end of 2011...

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Old 05-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I wonder if average FE of new cars is a good reflection of trends? The average MPGs could be lowered if a lot of new more efficient cars were bought, but also if less new gas guzzlers hit the road. The difference is that in the latter case the overall amount of fuel used is lower. When the media start regularly telling us that global oil consumption has been declining for the last X months/years, then I'll be less sceptic.

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Have a question; why is it that when it comes to bringing the more fuel efficient cars, minivans, and trucks to the US market that the usual answer is that they don't meet the emission and crash standards? It doesn't make sense.

It's almost saying, " Europeans and those in the world markets have to have more polluting and less safe vehicles because of where they are. "
That's because US, Europe and Japan pay attention to different emissions - one prefers lower CO2 but doesn't care about NOx and PM, another vice versa.

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European have obsession about CO2 and diesel have always got the privilege to pollute more... Things seams to change and half a dozen French cities declared to ban old cars (not Euro 2 ie before 10/1997) from their roads before the end of 2011...
Cities restricting use of polluting cars
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I didn't take it as preaching,
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I think you're on track to some degree that there's a price that will change behaviour, but there's also other social factors that will be hard to make go away....
Well kind of, I would like to find out what that is and maybe what influences it.

And I will be ignoring any of those "its the fault of the government we have these regulations" or indeed the "the government does not regulate enough" arguments because both are irrelevant.
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Having driven some very small cars in my life, I could only wish here in the USA we could get something like an Audi A2. Maybe one of these days people in the US will decide they can no longer afford to drive large inefficient vehicles.

1800 pounds with a 1 liter engine and supercharging or turbocharging for emergency power bursts. 60 MPG at 60 MPH should be the standard today. Maybe in a decade.

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Old 05-03-2011, 04:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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1800 pounds with a 1 liter engine and supercharging or turbocharging for emergency power bursts. 60 MPG at 60 MPH should be the standard today. Maybe in a decade.

regards
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Why wait a whole decade ? Toyota make that car now, and it has the same safety rating at the Yaris which I think is sold in the US ? It even has an auto option for the hard of thinking.

Nissan make essentially an identical car to the Aygo with the Pixo - also sold as a Suzuki.

GM even sold a 1.0 3cyl 12v Corsa in Europe - that's the same company that decided not to sell the Metro any more in the US.

This is not an engineering "what is possible" issue. It is a "what will those people buy and we can make money on" issue.

The technology is there, other people buy it.

Americans aren't even offered it.

EDIT - no supercharger - but guess what, people manage to survive without it.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Why wait a whole decade ? Toyota make that car now, and it has the same safety rating at the Yaris which I think is sold in the US ? It even has an auto option for the hard of thinking.

Nissan make essentially an identical car to the Aygo with the Pixo - also sold as a Suzuki.

GM even sold a 1.0 3cyl 12v Corsa in Europe - that's the same company that decided not to sell the Metro any more in the US.

This is not an engineering "what is possible" issue. It is a "what will those people buy and we can make money on" issue.

The technology is there, other people buy it.

Americans aren't even offered it.

EDIT - no supercharger - but guess what, people manage to survive without it.
Man, it makes me mad to think the bailouts could have been avoided.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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...maybe we should make the U.S.Govt get "out" of our lives, and let us drive paper-thin, death-traps to our hearts' content, so that the "Annual Darwin Awards" could become universally commonplace "daily" awards?

...100 MPG and 100 MPH until "Dawin Awarded"?
Now that's funny!
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanspeed1 View Post
Have a question; why is it that when it comes to bringing the more fuel efficient cars, minivans, and trucks to the US market that the usual answer is that they don't meet the emission and crash standards? It doesn't make sense. "
I think that we, U.S. consumers, have demonstrated that we will not buy vehicles that are smaller than a certain size, or slower than a certain speed. So why should they go to the effort of homologating them for our market?
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...maybe we should make the U.S.Govt get "out" of our lives, and let us drive paper-thin, death-traps to our hearts' content, so that the "Annual Darwin Awards" could become universally commonplace "daily" awards?
Strange that so many people avoided dying while driving those "paper-thin deathtraps" built in the '50s & '60s, then. Not to mention that they were running on bias-ply tires and often using drum brakes, too.

Or for real irony, consider how many people use their big, safe (supposedly) SUVs & pickups to haul their quads & dirt bikes out to the country where they race around like maniacs. Or the ones which advertise sports like extreme skiing/snowboarding. So the upshot is that you must drive what is in perception an extremely safe vehicle to someplace where you will risk life & limb. (To say nothing of the added dangers of cell phones, in-vehicle infotainment, etc.) Excuse me if the logic escapes me :-)

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