07-11-2017, 02:10 PM
|
#1 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
|
Battery crunch coming
Volkswagen says it needs the equivalent of 40 "gigafactories" worth of batteries by 2025 for 3 million electric cars/ year. 200GWh per year.
.
"Assuming other automakers prepare similar electric-vehicle sales goals, VW predicts a total of 1.5 terawatt-hours will be required within the global automotive industry."
.
Do we have enough Lithium? Cobalt? We need to focus on gravity/ railroad for grid storage (and nuclear which needs no storage) to save the batteries for transportation.
.
VW says it needs '40 gigafactories' for electric-car batteries by 2025
.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sendler For This Useful Post:
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 02:25 PM
|
#2 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
|
Good for him. Save the human race. And make a few bucks.
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 02:51 PM
|
#3 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,819
Thanks: 4,327
Thanked 4,480 Times in 3,445 Posts
|
It seems silly to have battery backup for the home. Excess solar can be sold back to the grid, so that negates the need for storing excess production.
I'd like to see a system that can connect an EV to the house in case of a power outage. This would completely eliminate the need for home power storage or power generators.
Last edited by redpoint5; 07-11-2017 at 04:15 PM..
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 03:12 PM
|
#4 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 654
Thanks: 36
Thanked 137 Times in 101 Posts
|
Never mind the batteries and the Lithium. What about the mains electricity to charge them all? Bye bye hydrocarbons, hello nuclear.
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 04:09 PM
|
#5 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
It seems silly to me to have battery backup for the home. Excess solar can be sold back to the grid, so that negates the need for storing excess production.
I'd like to see a system that can connect an EV to the house in case of a power outage. This would completely eliminate the need for home power storage or power generators.
|
Battery grid storage seems silly now but what about when solar and wind become more than just a drop in the bucket of the base load? This is the aspect that the anti nuclear crowd is totally unaware of (ignorant bliss). The grid doesn't function unless it is rock solid or things start browning out and burning up.
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 04:18 PM
|
#6 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,819
Thanks: 4,327
Thanked 4,480 Times in 3,445 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler
Battery grid storage seems silly now but what about when solar and wind become more than just a drop in the bucket of the base load? This is the aspect that the anti nuclear crowd is totally unaware of (ignorant bliss). The grid doesn't function unless it is rock solid or things start browning out and burning up.
|
I'm still against chemical storage. Seems it would be more efficient to use pumped hydro or other potential kinetic energy storage such as your railcar suggestion.
How efficient is decomposing water into H2? This is one of the few chemical storage solutions I could see being practical.
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 04:25 PM
|
#7 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
I'm still against chemical storage. Seems it would be more efficient to use pumped hydro or other potential kinetic energy storage such as your railcar suggestion.
How efficient is decomposing water into H2? This is one of the few chemical storage solutions I could see being practical.
|
H2 conversion forth and back not good. Ammonia has also been used. Rail cars should be quite cost effective if there is an appropriate grade. I'm surprised Tesla hasn't jumped in on this since the Gigafactory1 is surrounded by hills. Save the batteries for transportation.
|
|
|
07-11-2017, 11:10 PM
|
#8 (permalink)
|
Corporate imperialist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,268
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,570 Times in 2,834 Posts
|
Yes save the world by strip mining it for battery materials.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-12-2017, 01:49 AM
|
#9 (permalink)
|
Polymorphic Modder
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 307
Thanks: 188
Thanked 40 Times in 25 Posts
|
I think the answer is smaller batteries and on the road charging. One experimental bus line in Salt Lake City is using the bus stops to inductively charge small sets of batteries. Fewer batteries required. We could inductively charge cars while they drive. Technology is already here.
Also what about the super capacitor cars?
|
|
|
07-12-2017, 03:35 AM
|
#10 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,819
Thanks: 4,327
Thanked 4,480 Times in 3,445 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphDaCivic
I think the answer is smaller batteries and on the road charging. One experimental bus line in Salt Lake City is using the bus stops to inductively charge small sets of batteries. Fewer batteries required. We could inductively charge cars while they drive. Technology is already here.
Also what about the super capacitor cars?
|
It takes an enormous amount of copper wire to make an inductive charge road. The cost is prohibitive.
Although induction charging might work for buses that run a known route and spend a decent amount of time at stops, it's just not practical for passenger vehicles.
|
|
|
|