Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-12-2017, 01:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
We're not talking laptops and cell phones anymore. Recycling these big automotive batteries will make sense when 1TWh per year start coming in 30-40 years from now.
.
For longer trips a standardized series ICE gen on a trailer could be rented.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-12-2017, 01:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Although induction charging might work for buses that run a known route and spend a decent amount of time at stops, it's just not practical for passenger vehicles.
Why do you need inductive charging for busses at all? Do it the way busses (and trains) in many European cities have been for years: A pantograph connects to overhead power wires. If you have fixed routes, you don't even need batteries; otherwise you just charge at stops.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 01:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vskid3 View Post
But does it have to, or are we just seeing an early adopter premium added on until the chargers get more regular use?

I think it makes more sense to have most EVs going around with 30-40kwh batteries and plenty of places to charge for those occasional trips than to haul around a 60+kwh battery just in case you want to make a trip (which you'll still probably need to charge on any decent trip anyway). It's because of the lack of chargers that a larger battery is needed or wanted to help with reducing range anxiety.
Perhaps fast charging costs are at a premium due to how new they are, but they do cost more than L2 chargers. Not only do they cost more to build (1-time cost), but they also have to pay demand charges, which are an additional monthly cost in addition to the amount of electricity consumed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Why do you need inductive charging for busses at all? Do it the way busses (and trains) in many European cities have been for years: A pantograph connects to overhead power wires. If you have fixed routes, you don't even need batteries; otherwise you just charge at stops.
I was just thinking that it's more likely we get overhead power lines that our cars connect to than inductive charging.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 02:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
If lithium batteries last 10+ years and there is some mandate forcing most cars to use them.
Where are the used batteries for these new cars going to come from?
Then if the plant is located on the left Coast it will cost a hazardous freight charge to ship the used batteries cross county for most locations, where is that money going to come from?

It would be nice but I don't really see it happening.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
Construction on Gigafactory 1 seems to have stalled since August. And why is there not a single solar panel in sight yet?
.
.

.
.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga...uction-update/
.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 01:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
As far as I can tell the price of batteries hasn't come down at all.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 05:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 802
Thanks: 412
Thanked 304 Times in 228 Posts
There are some solar panels on the Gigafactory now. That article was from January. Try this--
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tes...top-array/amp/
__________________


2024 Chevy Bolt

Previous:
2015 Nissan Leaf S, 164 mpge
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 06:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
Full sized hybrid.
 
Isaac Zackary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 602

Suzy - '13 Toyota Avalon Hybrid XLE
90 day: 37.18 mpg (US)
Thanks: 369
Thanked 108 Times in 84 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Do we have enough Lithium? Cobalt?
Maybe I'll find it again. But according to a recent report, there is enough lithium that's already found to replace every single vehicle in the whole world with a Tesla and still have plenty of lithium left over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
It seems silly to have battery backup for the home. Excess solar can be sold back to the grid, so that negates the need for storing excess production.
The idea of battery storage is to move completely off of coal, nuclear, etc. and to move to renewables. If there is no way to store energy from wind and solar then they are only good when there is sun or wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoT View Post
Never mind the batteries and the Lithium. What about the mains electricity to charge them all? Bye bye hydrocarbons, hello nuclear.
Of course the future is unclear. But theoretically, the same battery technology being developed for EV's will also help energy storage. Solar panels are at an all time low price and are expected to get even lower. If a cheap way to store solar comes about then solar could be the cheapest way to make electricity. In other words, if there ever is an EV revolution, it could mean a solar revolution as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I'm still against chemical storage. Seems it would be more efficient to use pumped hydro or other potential kinetic energy storage such as your railcar suggestion.

How efficient is decomposing water into H2? This is one of the few chemical storage solutions I could see being practical.
H2 is terribly inefficient. Hydro storage takes up lots of land and returns very little. A better alternative right now would be flywheel storage. But supposedly as EV technology progresses, the technology will be much cheaper and available for other purposes, such as grid storage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Yes save the world by strip mining it for battery materials.
Agreed. There is no perfect answer. I may sound like I'm advocating lithium ion technology for every use imaginable. But in reality, with so much propaganda from every angle, who knows what's best for the environment other than banning vehicular travel altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphDaCivic View Post
Also what about the super capacitor cars?
If only they were cheaper and held more energy. Still, super caps technology is in the same race as lithium ion. Who knows what the next discovery will be. If someone finally figures out a cheap way to manufacture graphene the future could be super capacitor batteries instead of chemical ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Better streamlining and smaller frontal area will help reduce battery requirements. But I don't see anyone headed anywhere near there yet. As a matter of fact, many of the new concepts are full size crossovers.
I know, right? It just goes to show that the economy is not based on what is best for society or the environment. It's based on a market to sell and make money. Most people still think 30mpg is great fuel mileage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
If a person regularly needs to travel more than the range of an EV, then it's the wrong tool for the job. It costs much more than gasoline to quick charge an EV, and it takes much longer to "refuel", and you have to stop more frequently.
Yes, but what range would that be? I've done several 140 mile daily trips in my Leaf. I drive 70 miles to work, let it charge off L2, then drive back home.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 07:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoWalker
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,998

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 47.72 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,711
Thanked 2,245 Times in 1,454 Posts
I wouldn't need a big range. I'm eyeballing used Leafs and the Ioniq electric. The very few times my drive goes past their range I'd need a stop along the way anyway.

A relatively large amount of our cars are plugins or EVs (maybe 1 or 2%) and the charging infrastructure reflects it. Almost any car park has charging points. It ceases to be an issue.
When the majority of cars get electrified then charging points will be as common as lamp posts...

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.2 Gmeter or 0.13 Mmile.


For confirmation go to people just like you.
For education go to people unlike yourself.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com