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Old 02-07-2014, 03:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
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yah, gasoline, throttled, o2feedback/stoic, very roughly speaking of course.

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Old 02-08-2014, 05:34 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Yes.
Specific to each engine, dependant on cam, bore to stroke ratio and such.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:08 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
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American Viking is new, need to adjust the nut behind the wheel...
Woah, I wasn't either riders, so why do I need "adjusting". I was just relating how a moderate weight change could make a large impact on the economy of the little 250.

My mistake was I thought I read he wanted to go 60 mph with two people on board..
I designed two reverse trikes in college back in the 80's, one a roadracing cycle car, the other a three wheeled automobile.
I've been both a motorcycle and car mechanic, so I know what wheels, tires, brakes and suspension parts weigh.
Unless he's not worried about meeting State and Federal safety regulations, its going be several times heavier than the complete original bike.

As several suggested, I looked at the CalCom. It was very interesting, but If you tried to build something like that today, it would be impossible to get registered with the state for use on the road.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:37 PM   #54 (permalink)
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In most states a 3 wheeled vehicle is classed as a motorcycle, for which a crush-proof frame/body is not required. I have not been able to find any "standards" that apply. Someone built a new California Commuter last year and registered it in Florida for use on the highways. If it has 4 wheels it's a car and needs to meet all the FMVSafetyStandards, if it has 3 wheels it's a motorcycle and there are very few standards - applying to brakes, lights, etc. - NOT to frame.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:47 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Regulations, schmegulations. Much of that is for vehicles built for RESALE, as in, being a manufacturer or commercial reseller.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:21 PM   #56 (permalink)
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There are national standards for manufacturers whether FMVSS for running gear or EPA for engine emissions. Test data has to be submitted to the gov't for approval before sale to the public. A custom vehicle you build for yourself or very limited production usually falls under state licensing laws. The state may require you to use certain approved components. A state inspector will likely want to look over your vehicle before allowing it to be registered. The finished weight of a trike will depend on materials used and the design of parts for factor of safety.
The SCCA Formula Vee and Super Vee class cars would have the front suspension and frame suitable for a single seat trike. If you are not into welding a tube frame then a composite cut and fold unit made from honeycomb aluminum might be cost effective.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:47 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Yes, and it appears that the relevant Washington State bureaucrats have never dealt with a home built/customized trike before. I've been communicating with them for a couple of months and have yet to learn exactly what they will require. Hopefully they're getting close to defining it.

Thanks for the formula vee idea. I hadn't thought of that, but will look at it. Hopefully that will provide a better front suspension design/component set than the California Commuter plans, though if they use VW parts, they'll be heavier than I want for my trike which I hope will weight no more than 400 lbs (depending on the donor motorcycle I use).
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:10 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Regulations, schmegulations. Much of that is for vehicles built for RESALE, as in, being a manufacturer or commercial reseller.
If you want to put a license plate on it, there are regulations on the vehicle.
Are the rules for a custom built trike less than a kit car, sure but they are there.
Now as Grant and Scot point out custom built vehicles fall under state regulations not federal but since each state is different, that doesn't mean its easier.

I live in NJ and a good friend works for a local shop that specializes in trike conversions. The shop builds totally custom machines, not just installing trike kits, so they have to deal with the same regulations as someone building a reverse trike in his own garage.
What he and the owner told me is that the weight, engine capacity and number of passengers all effect what equipment the vehicle must have.
But some rules are across the board. Things like minimum operators head height, tire load indexes, fire suppression rules, tank venting, minimum/maximum wheel track, lighting, windshield materials/construction/heights, minimum angles of approach, maximum overhang, etc..

I showed the owner one front quarter view picture of the California Commuter (the one with the gal sitting on/next to it) and he pointed out a half a dozen things that it would be denied registration over.
rider's head height,
headlight location,
rear overhang,
exhaust position,
lack of a roll bar,
exhaust tip position
And that was just glancing at one photo.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:39 PM   #59 (permalink)
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As noted, each state has it's own regs. In Washington State I'll have to meet headlight beam & height, taillight height & size, horn, etc. - but, as far as I can tell, nothing that impacts weight. And in Florida, as noted, the California Commuter meets the regs. And note that it does have a roll bar, within the bodywork immediately behind the drivers head, though that doesn't appear to be a requirement in Washington State, at least.

Are you sure that New Jersey requires a roll bar? Most of the commercial trikes I've seen are essentially motorcycles with a 3rd wheel - paired either front or back, and I've never seen one of those with a roll bar.

Last edited by ScotD; 02-13-2014 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:45 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotD View Post
As noted, each state has it's own regs. In Washington State I'll have to meet headlight beam & height, taillight height & size, horn, etc. - but, as far as I can tell, nothing that impacts weight. And in Florida, as noted, the California Commuter meets the regs. And note that it does have a roll bar, within the bodywork immediately behind the drivers head, though that doesn't appear to be a requirement in Washington State, at least.

Are you sure that New Jersey requires a roll bar? Most of the commercial trikes I've seen are essentially motorcycles with a 3rd wheel - paired either front or back, and I've never seen one of those with a roll bar.
According to James the owner, because it has the enclosed bodywork it would need a roll bar. If it did not enclose the rider, then it would not need the roll bar.
According to the regulations, the roll bar main loop must be a minimum 2 inches higher than the drivers helmet. So its not tall enough for that operator in that picture.

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