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Old 07-14-2009, 02:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Most of the drag reduction is going to happen at the back of the truck. (I suspect you already know this, judging by your chosen username!) The max frontal area exists at the very end of the vehicle = bad news.

So boat-tailing will help, as will shrouding the rear wheels by extending a skirt below the box, as you've probably started to see on tractor trailers.

That's just a start....
the username was chosen because modern versions of this vehicle are utilizing a lower profile frame which allows the cargo box to ride significantly lower whilst still allowing for standing headroom +.

it is a 12' box on a short frame therefore very little room for wheel pants, which would have to extend behind the vehicle to become effective.

there is a discontinuity at the far end/ bottom of the cab and the beginning of the cargo box which i intend to streamline with a toolbox of sorts... culminating in a generous downward radius as it nears the rear duallys, at least down to the center of the axle.

the roll up rear door will be rarely, if used at all. therfore a trim tab style (like the skidplates used on the rear of small boats) boat tailing
would be possible/practical but i have my heart set on PVC pipe frame covered with a contoured nylon fabric covering.

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Old 07-14-2009, 02:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
pie-cut that box, turn it into a beetle-shell... there's a killer aero-mod for you.
i have a stack of unlaminated .700" alcoa honeycomb sheets that have been patiently waiting in my attic for over a decade which will lend themselves well to
a cab over adoptation. originally i was thinking truck cap but extra cargo/ sleeping space is much more valuable. the area above the cab is 3' x 8'.
for anyone that has ever tried to walk into a 5 mph wind with a sheet of plywood will be able to appreciate this mod.

on your other point, i completely agree with you ;~>
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Old 07-14-2009, 04:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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first ideas are the same as other people have wrote - lower skirt below the box and around the rearwheels be tempted to got for a false floor under the prop with a boat-tail under the cabdiffusing up into the wake are behind the box. I'd go for a Kamm back to allow you to use the doors still
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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ideas

side and underside
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The first thing that comes to my mind is, don't drive more truck than you need. Unless you need a box of that size and height, get rid of it. If you don't need the weight capacity, lose the dual rear wheels. Actually, if you don't need the weight capacity, get a minivan. A larger load rating means heavier frame, larger engine, larger radiator... the truck balloons to ridiculous proportions.

But hey, if you've got the back of the truck packed from front to back, floor to ceiling, with 6000lbs of live chickens, you can still improve the truck. How about a large, V-shaped (as viewed from above) fairing above the cab? Super single tires, underbelly pan, engine swap from a Mercedes Sprinter van... See if you can steal ideas / install parts from the latest Ford Transit.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So I need to apologize for something right now.

Honestly, I thought when this thread came up, that the OP was spamming. I mean... the name, the truck, and the ideology behind this forum just don't jive very well at first glance.

Now that I see you're serious, and not just trolling for kicks, let's get 'er goin!

If you're really serious about aero, you won't need the rolling door, and you won't use the truck's full capacity every time you use it, probably one of the best things you could do is make the rear a "pop up" style.

Cut yourself out about a 12* (from horizontal) wedge, with your horizontal line about 3" down from the top, and your 12* line starting from the front of the truck and going clean to the back. Remove that wedge that you've just cut, and you'll have a roof that slants from front to back about 12*, which will help with that HUGE wake you're trailing behind you.

To make sure you still have use of the whole box area, when necessary, you just hinge the front of the roof piece to the front of the rest of the box, and attach canvas to the inside of both pieces, like a pop-up camper. At the rear-most inside corners, some wind-up joists will allow you to open the box all the way up so it can be used to it's fullest capacity.

Before doing the belly pan, make sure to "tuck" the chassis... so that nothing comes down below the bottom of the frame that doesn't have to.

Wheel pants are probably an extreme, but you can always put either some skirting or a couple tool boxes or something in front of/behind the rear wheels, and then just bolt on some flat covers, so that you have "skirts" of sorts, which cover the rear wheel area.

Brake adjustments are a necessity on large vehicles which see severe duty in the braking system. Make sure they're not dragging.

If you're going to block the grille, make sure it's something that you can allow better airflow through the radiator from inside the truck, in case you're loaded, going up a steep hill, and can't pull over when you start overheating.

Anyway - once again, I apologize, and best of luck to you.
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Old 07-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
So I need to apologize for something right now.

Honestly, I thought when this thread came up, that the OP was spamming. I mean... the name, the truck, and the ideology behind this forum just don't jive very well at first glance.

Now that I see you're serious, and not just trolling for kicks, let's get 'er goin!

If you're really serious about aero, you won't need the rolling door, and you won't use the truck's full capacity every time you use it, probably one of the best things you could do is make the rear a "pop up" style.

Cut yourself out about a 12* (from horizontal) wedge, with your horizontal line about 3" down from the top, and your 12* line starting from the front of the truck and going clean to the back. Remove that wedge that you've just cut, and you'll have a roof that slants from front to back about 12*, which will help with that HUGE wake you're trailing behind you.

To make sure you still have use of the whole box area, when necessary, you just hinge the front of the roof piece to the front of the rest of the box, and attach canvas to the inside of both pieces, like a pop-up camper. At the rear-most inside corners, some wind-up joists will allow you to open the box all the way up so it can be used to it's fullest capacity.

Before doing the belly pan, make sure to "tuck" the chassis... so that nothing comes down below the bottom of the frame that doesn't have to.

Wheel pants are probably an extreme, but you can always put either some skirting or a couple tool boxes or something in front of/behind the rear wheels, and then just bolt on some flat covers, so that you have "skirts" of sorts, which cover the rear wheel area.

Brake adjustments are a necessity on large vehicles which see severe duty in the braking system. Make sure they're not dragging.

If you're going to block the grille, make sure it's something that you can allow better airflow through the radiator from inside the truck, in case you're loaded, going up a steep hill, and can't pull over when you start overheating.

Anyway - once again, I apologize, and best of luck to you.
Christ almighty! No, not you Christ ;~>
that was my point exactly an elephant in a glasshouse. a place where prius and geo ownwers squeezing a few extra drops - larger vehicles could drop gallons but somebody first has to make ppl aware of the possibilities.

been puttin air dams on street vehicles for decades now well aware of handling improvements and mpg savings. i wasn't the only one but it was always a fringe thing. racing, windtunnel time, playin with CFD reinforced
what i learned on the street and made it even more plausible when applied to higher speeds. that is just for the aero contingent, there is lots do do under the hood..

when i was on here years ago there were very few diesels but that seems all too different now therfore applause to those that have deceided to choose the proper platform for experimentation!

on spamming, trolling and the like it seems that an ever increasing number of ppl have set out to entertain themselves at the cost of others - a trend of sorts? hope not.

soooooo, cuttin up the back of the rig? i like it, it would get it a bit closer to the aspect ratio of a tear drop. now if i knew i'd keep it it would be worth investigatin. structually hmmmmmmm. the whole back of the box is a rigid steel frame altering it, would cause stuctural compromises. the sides are
plywood laminated with heavy glass cloth. so it needs that frame in the back to keep it all together!
bummer though, come dragstrip day that hinged flap sure would come in handy in an upright position!
the overhead door is quite heavy and if not absolutely needed i might ditch it for a lighter permanent/fixed wood framed version.
this truck will be used for hauling at times therefore keeping it light is of big interest to me. all the aero work and addition of a turbo will also help make the hills.

yes, lots of tucking and swabbing also removal of the fuel tank, relocation of tailights, and i mistook, there is room for wheelpants for the rear wheels
afterall. i will take pics and get dimensions for everything pertinent.
i also want to increase ariflow around the differential bell. for starters i will
try to source a finned aluminum cover if not to be found carefully tack some steel fins to it. what would be a clever way to augment airflow (increase convective cooling) and still gain aero efficiency?

radiator blocks were the "secret" to gettin my rabbit and jetta up to 60 and 70 mpg. diesels like to run hot and guess what, so do gassers.
where did the "cars that run cooler run better" wifestale ever get started,
in a kitchen i suppose?
i always seal the radiators so that no air is spilled around them, then
selectively choke the radiator with vehicle aero improvements as a priority.
i will have to see if i can dig out pics of my beakmobile (1982 jetta) (:>
by the way this car has NO radiator fan. me being me i pulled it off in cocky confidence that it would stay cool with the above mods. it has never overheated in 4 years as long as there is some kind of airflow

some big rigs use thermostatically controlled mini blind style radiator blocks,
pretty slick if you have the room and i might as i will be taking my fanclutch/fan and chucking it into a neigborhood near me.
pontiac/chevy trans sports vans have a promising large dia electric replacement fan.

Last edited by max_frontal_area; 07-18-2009 at 05:08 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-27-2009, 02:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It depends what you are going to use the truck for. If you are not going to be anywhere near the weight limit, you should pull the fan and clutch and use a dual fan setup or perhaps more. Consider another fan on the front of the radiator as a pusher fan. Keep the clutch in case the fans don't cool properly.

If you will not be needing such a large box, there are many people in my area that buy just the boxes for storage, you could either sell the box outright or trade them your larger box for a smaller box.

If you will not be at the weight limits you can remove the dual axle in the back and sell it and buy a single axle or bolt up regular rims to it. The front axle has dually adapters that simply need to be unbolted. You can then bolt up regular rims and tires, aluminum rims will be a large reduction in weight. If you have ever removed one of the rims and tires it's extremely heavy. I don't see many 8 lug aluminum rims used in my area. The cheapest I have ever seen were $100 each used without tires.

If you pull the rear axle you can get one with a lower axle ratio for better MPG.

Don't do any of the crap above if you are going to be driving this around loaded.

Your van should have an E40D, it may have a C6 transmission. Gear Vendors makes a overdrive/underdrive unit for your vehicle. You will need to get a new driveshaft or have the current one shortened. You can also try and convert the automatic over to a manual transmission. Ford made manual transmission vans up to 89, but they were all 4.9. You should be able to use the mounting points and clutch pedal assembly from an econoline to help your conversion process.

I had a 1988 F250 4wd 5 speed and the best I ever got was 20.2 mpg.

I have a 1994 E350 ambulance (type 2, regular van with a high roof) and I get 15 to 17 mpg. It doesn't sound that good but the 460 gas was getting 8mpg.

To use less diesel you could also convert the van to run on Waste Vegetable Oil. You will need another tank that is heated and some heated fuel lines. If you make your own kit it's much cheaper than buying one.

Also important, go to an International dealer (who made your engine) or a ford dealer ship and get the anti-cavitation additive. You will get pinholes in the cylinders and it will have to be rebuilt and all the cylinders will need to be relined.
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I can't stress enough to not use WVO or SVO conversion kits. Burning either in an engine releases large amounts of glycerides into the air, since Glycerine is only combustible at a temperature much higher than most engines reach. Doing your own BD conversion removes the glycerine and replaces it with methanol or ethanol, depending on which one you use, making it chemically stable for use as a fuel.

It also leaves left over glycerine and lye, which you can use right from the waste bucket as hand soap.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
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very nice paint job !

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