"Big rigs will have to slash fuel consumption by 23 percent".

[cleanspeed1]

Originally Posted by p38fln

The vast majority of drivers are paid by the mile, even drivers that own their own truck - but that doesn't mean they drive any slower, mileage based pay means the faster you go the more money you get.

You're not going to get 12-15 MPG out of an OTR tractor with this regulation - they're talking about a 23% increase. Since trucks are averaging 6 MPG right now, they're only talking about increasing to 7.38 MPG - which is VERY doable, and there are truck configurations on the road right now that can get this fuel economy (see my earlier post for some examples of trucks that are available today that I think will either meet or come very close to meeting the new standard).

Also, a big rig (from my own experimentation) gets about the best fuel economy at 55 MPH, dropping sharply off above 60. Of course, driving a big rig at 55 MPH in a state with a 75 (or 85) MPH speed limit is pretty much asking for a rather nasty accident. The rumor in the trucking world is that the state of Nevada actually sued Schneider National several years back for having their governers set to 55 MPH (and the state won). Not sure if that's true or not, since its something I heard in a truck stop.

Of course...
Some days just plain suck - this was the worst MPG I ever saw come out of the truck I was driving. Not sure if it was the cold weather or not, on a warm day the truck would get at least 5 MPG in the same mountainous area of PA.

A lot of the problems in the trucking industry can be solved simply by giving everyone a RAISE. At the current rates, you are hanging by a thread most of the time if you are an owner/operator, which then forces most folks to run harder just to maintain. At the current fuel prices, if you are making less than $1.50 a loaded mile in a semi, you are working for free and in danger of going out of business.

When the industry was still regulated, everyone got paid $3.00 to $5.00 a mile guaranteed. That's how the truckers had legendary sway in the USA at one time. We made more than a Harvard grad most of the time. The suits did not like that. So the quest to devalue what we do was in full swing, starting with deregulating the industry in '79, then NAFTA, then the fuel price increases after the Iraq War. The newest regulations from the DOT only help to underscore lowering the value of what we do ( CSA 2010 ).

Anywho, if there was an across the board wage increase to $2.10 per loaded mile or so, the amount of miles needed to make a good check would drop from 3000 to 2200, which means you don't have to drive hard to make the money happen. It's only 440 miles per day, which can be done in 8 hours at 55 mph. That falls well within the guidelines of Hours of Service, and makes life a ton easier. Even if the mpg standard remained the same, the profitability is much better which takes the stress off. Accidents would decrease, health would improve because you would have time off to have a life.

Trucks with good aero, a Detroit Series 60 and proper gearing can hit the higher standard now without tricks; just a good driver. Had a friend with a Volvo with that same combo ( pre EGR mind you ) that would get 8 mpg loaded or better all the time. I noticed he pulsed and glided when he drove.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...then, I "stand corrected" as I was under the impression that Europe's highspeed trains (like Japan's and China's) were mega-lift.

European trains are railbound, and so are Japanese and Chinese trains.
The few exceptions are test tracks and short distance connections.

MagLev has been around for a while, but is still rather experimental.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev_(transport)

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by cleanspeed1

A lot of the problems in the trucking industry can be solved simply by giving everyone a RAISE. At the current rates, you are hanging by a thread most of the time if you are an owner/operator, which then forces most folks to run harder just to maintain. At the current fuel prices, if you are making less than $1.50 a loaded mile in a semi, you are working for free and in danger of going out of business.

When the industry was still regulated, everyone got paid $3.00 to $5.00 a mile guaranteed. That's how the truckers had legendary sway in the USA at one time. We made more than a Harvard grad most of the time. The suits did not like that. So the quest to devalue what we do was in full swing, starting with deregulating the industry in '79, then NAFTA, then the fuel price increases after the Iraq War. The newest regulations from the DOT only help to underscore lowering the value of what we do ( CSA 2010 ).

Anywho, if there was an across the board wage increase to $2.10 per loaded mile or so, the amount of miles needed to make a good check would drop from 3000 to 2200, which means you don't have to drive hard to make the money happen. It's only 440 miles per day, which can be done in 8 hours at 55 mph. That falls well within the guidelines of Hours of Service, and makes life a ton easier. Even if the mpg standard remained the same, the profitability is much better which takes the stress off. Accidents would decrease, health would improve because you would have time off to have a life.

Trucks with good aero, a Detroit Series 60 and proper gearing can hit the higher standard now without tricks; just a good driver. Had a friend with a Volvo with that same combo ( pre EGR mind you ) that would get 8 mpg loaded or better all the time. I noticed he pulsed and glided when he drove.

Makes you want to solve it 70's style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn-6k...eature=related

I'm for a trucker's raise, and a mandate the companies pay for retrofitting for the new standards. Change people's lives for the better. The US comes to a complete stop without truckers.

[CFECO]

How they did it in the "Old" days, back when round was cool.

[cleanspeed1]

Originally Posted by CFECO

How they did it in the "Old" days, back when round was cool.

Cool truck brother!

I had two Old Schoolers, an '84 KW K100 that after a tune up and 3.36s did 10 mpg pulling an empty 53 foot dry van from San Diego to Allentown, Pa.
My '85 KW W900 Flat Top w/ a 3406B Cat, 15 speed and 3.90s on tall rubber was a pig in comparison ( 4.8 - 5.2 loaded, 6 mpg empty ) but the folks loved that one going down the road. It was a handsome rig. Too bad it was a bad business case.

If I had to do it all over again, it would have been a KW T600 with a Detroit or a Cummins N14, a programmer, high flow exhaust from manifold to tailpipe, a better turbo and enough gear to do 105 mph. Either that or a Pete 372 set up the same way ( the Winnebago had excellent aero ). Driven with some sense, I know that either one would do 7-7.5 all the time with a van.

[oil pan 4]

Well 10 years later and I don't think anything has changed.
The government mandated DPF garbage be installed on trucks and that lowers fuel milage.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Well 10 years later and I don't think anything has changed.
The government mandated DPF garbage be installed on trucks and that lowers fuel milage.

I don't think that is correct, oil pan. It would seem newer trucks have exceeded the initial mandate announced in 2011:

“From 2012 to 2017, we saw a lot better fuel economy year over year,” said Mike Roeth, executive director of the North American Council for Freight Efficiency. Overall, new trucks get are a third more fuel efficient than older ones, he said.
https://www.trucks.com/2019/07/15/fu...t-truck-sales/

[redpoint5]

A decade later, and still no hybrids.

The industry is continuing their backwards plan to hybridize the most efficient vehicles first. We're now at the Mavrick, the smallest truck Ford will make.

Maybe by 2040 they'll have gotten to big rigs.

[Isaac Zachary]

As I posted elsewhere, there was a time when city trucks (garbage, buses, mail, etc.) were being hybridized in some places. Then they all seemed to have up and disappeared. Supposedly the interest has been replaced with interest in all-electrict BEV's.

With the long haul big rigs BEV technology does not look promising and there's not much reason to make them hybrids either, except maybe in Colorado. Being able to brake and absorb energy as you travel down steep mountain passes would be a wonderful addition to any vehicle that frequently drives over steep mountain passes. But unless you do a sizeable amount braking, a hybrid system becomes just added weight.

Edit:

BEV and hybrid technology aside (kind of), there's only so much more that could be done to improve the efficiency of big rig engines. One would be to further reduce friction. That could be done by using fewer cylinders. But the straight 6 is great because it's the one of the few engines that has both a perfect primary and secondary balance great for longevity (and comfort). There has been some talk of a redesigned 4 cylinder that has reduced (or eliminated) an inline-4's secondary imbalance problems which could make it a better candidate for a large efficient engine with great longevity.

Another design would be opposing pistons. A single cylinder two piston opposed piston engine would be ideal in some ways but more complicated in others. But if we want a 60% or better efficient engine in a road going vehicle that may be the only way to go.

Sizing also is important. Close to full load is where most engines are the most efficient. But how do you size an engine to run within a small window of load and RPM? This is where a hybrid could help. If it has enough energy to help the truck accelerate or climb any sort of grade and then efficiently absorb as much as possible whenever possible (including excess from the engine on small descending inclines), then the engine could be sized much closer to an ideal size for average power needs.

[oil pan 4]

They say older but not how much older.
Something that gets 6 or 7 mpg is going to be like 20 to 30 years old.