Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-09-2019, 09:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 1,939

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
SUV
90 day: 51.62 mpg (US)

Tycho the Truck - '91 Toyota Pickup DLX 4WD
90 day: 22.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 199
Thanked 1,804 Times in 941 Posts
I would hesitate to go any lower than you have already; generally, there's a "sweet spot" where CD goes down as the body is lowered, but rises again with more lowering. According to the aerodynamics textbooks I've read, this is somewhere around 0.75 body cover:1 wheel diameter.

Mirrors will be your best bet. That underside looks very good for a production car already, but you may be able to cover the opening at the front subframe and behind the motor at the rear (or is yours a REx?).

Good luck! There are a couple of these running around my town, and I love seeing them--especially since the carbon fiber used in the body was manufactured in my hometown of Moses Lake.

__________________
UIUC Aerospace Engineering
www.amateuraerodynamics.com
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vman455 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (07-10-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-09-2019, 09:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 382

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 170 Times in 126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
I would hesitate to go any lower than you have already; generally, there's a "sweet spot" where CD goes down as the body is lowered, but rises again with more lowering. According to the aerodynamics textbooks I've read, this is somewhere around 0.75 body cover:1 wheel diameter.
Agreed. I don't think there is much to be gained there, although I am also looking at adding a front splitter. The front bumper profile rounds under relatively smoothly, but that would reduce some of the pressure and lift I get under the front end at higher speeds - and hopefully clean up aero overall.

Quote:
Mirrors will be your best bet. That underside looks very good for a production car already, but you may be able to cover the opening at the front subframe and behind the motor at the rear (or is yours a REx?).
It is a REx, so it does need to breathe a bit, but I wonder if just adding an exhaust louver over that rear most opening flat with the rest of the covering would help. Supposedly the REx version has a 0.01 cd penalty, and I can't figure any other place that could be coming from aside from that opening.
__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Snax For This Useful Post:
aerohead (07-10-2019)
Old 07-09-2019, 11:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mpg_numbers_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 1,372

Toby - '13 Toyota Prius C
Team Toyota
90 day: 63.99 mpg (US)

Daz - '15 Mazda 3 iTouring w/ Tech Package
Team Mazda
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 324
Thanked 483 Times in 368 Posts
Mirror delete and wheel skirts, as noted before. Filling in any part of the underbody that isn't completely smooth, covering up that opening in the front of the car beneath the "grille", for aero. Maybe a kammback if not a full boat tail.

I wouldn't go extreme and do something like shave the door handles on a car that expensive just for another 0.01 MPG, but YMMV.

Tire pressure and slow speeds are probably your best bet for improving range with that car.
__________________
2013 Toyota Prius C 2 (my car)


2015 Mazda 3 iTouring Hatchback w/ Tech Package (wife's car)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 11:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My money would be on mirror delete, but what do I know. Rear wheel covers could be it.
I don't disagree that the mirrors are a good mod to attempt. But in thinking about the lowest fruit, I include complexity and reversibility and possible police hazzards. One can experiment with wheel well covers almost for free, using cardboard, then build with materials much cheaper than cameras and much less likely to get a cop on you. That's all... the A2 windtunnel experience & results are relevant here, probably.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190621_155430.jpg
Views:	924
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	26370  
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (07-10-2019), redpoint5 (07-10-2019)
Old 07-09-2019, 11:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 382

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 170 Times in 126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Mirror delete and wheel skirts, as noted before. Filling in any part of the underbody that isn't completely smooth, covering up that opening in the front of the car beneath the "grille", for aero. Maybe a kammback if not a full boat tail.
Unfortunately, I don't believe any kind of a block of that front opening is a good idea except for perhaps during winter, as the car actively cools the battery during driving and charging from the heat pump radiator up front. While that kind of thing is relatively easy to monitor with an ICE motor, battery temperature is a black hole of information for owners and constant overheating would most definitely shorten the life.
__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 11:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mpg_numbers_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 1,372

Toby - '13 Toyota Prius C
Team Toyota
90 day: 63.99 mpg (US)

Daz - '15 Mazda 3 iTouring w/ Tech Package
Team Mazda
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 324
Thanked 483 Times in 368 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
Unfortunately, I don't believe any kind of a block of that front opening is a good idea except for perhaps during winter, as the car actively cools the battery during driving and charging from the heat pump radiator up front. While that kind of thing is relatively easy to monitor with an ICE motor, battery temperature is a black hole of information for owners and constant overheating would most definitely shorten the life.
Is the battery in the front of the car then? If it's for battery cooling then definitely leave it open; maybe duct it a little better since most factory ducting is subpar at best. Usually the batteries are underneath the car or more toward the rear.
__________________
2013 Toyota Prius C 2 (my car)


2015 Mazda 3 iTouring Hatchback w/ Tech Package (wife's car)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 11:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 382

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 170 Times in 126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
I don't disagree that the mirrors are a good mod to attempt. But in thinking about the lowest fruit, I include complexity and reversibility and possible police hazzards. One can experiment with wheel well covers almost for free, using cardboard, then build with materials much cheaper than cameras and much less likely to get a cop on you. That's all... the A2 windtunnel experience & results are relevant here, probably.

I had not seen that chart yet. Great info.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about legalities with the mirrors, as Oregon law is fairly arbitrary requiring only a "clear view" of the rear, and no specifics as to the number or placement of them.

I'm definitely going to delete them, as they are a noticeable source of noise at highway speeds. I think I have decent cameras and a monitor picked out to take up the slack - and hopefully actually expand my field of view at the same time.

Wheel covers are the likely to be my first step nonetheless, since it costs next to nothing to try.
__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 11:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 382

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 170 Times in 126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Is the battery in the front of the car then? If it's for battery cooling then definitely leave it open; maybe duct it a little better since most factory ducting is subpar at best. Usually the batteries are underneath the car or more toward the rear.
It is underneath, but uses a heat pump to circulate coolant through the system.
__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 01:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: California
Posts: 513

2020 - '08 Chevy Tahoe H
Last 3: 18.4 mpg (US)

2021 - '08 Chevy Tahoe H
90 day: 17.08 mpg (US)

2022 - '08 chevy Tahoe LT
Last 3: 14.38 mpg (US)

2023 - '08 Chevy Tahoe
Last 3: 22.61 mpg (US)

2024 - '08 Chevy Tahoe
90 day: 22.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 105 Times in 96 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
Ha ha, yeah . . no . .

I was just looking under the rear area ahead of the bumper, and it looks like they did wrap everything up like a diffuser, but it lacks side dams. I might try hot gluing something on down there to test out as that seems like one of those things they would likely have compromised out of the design for durability considerations.

All else on the car is otherwise so clean that substantial gains seem most likely to be with either my driving or the boat-tail I am so against.

Anyway, unless people have other suggestions, I will probably stick to this thread for whatever mods and testing I do.
well you could not drive at all and take the bus to get more mileage
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 01:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 382

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 90
Thanked 170 Times in 126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Found the pdf for this study BTW.

__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD

Last edited by Snax; 07-10-2019 at 02:01 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com