the bottom line, people have be forced to conserve.

[Frankenstipe]

What makes you so sure that the next kind of energy we can use in place of oil will not need to be conserved?

There is no such thing as free unlimited energy, we don't live in comic books, everything comes at a price.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Frankenstipe

What makes you so sure that the next kind of energy we can use in place of oil will not need to be conserved?

There is no such thing as free unlimited energy, we don't live in comic books, everything comes at a price.

Between, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear there is no shortage of energy available for the future. The deal with oil is can the earth sustain the increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere and is it smart to run the worlds carbon fuel reserves to zero in the next 200 years. Carbon does some things well that other forms of energy can not do. Airplanes are the best example of that.

[Gregte]

Originally Posted by LostCause

I don't see this as being offtopic, but you don't have to respond.

- LostCause

Just so you know LostCause, you are not the only one who feels the way you do. I pretty much agree with everything you have said in this thread. Hopefully there are many more folks with this attitude or at least folks who may eventually develop this way of thinking.

[Arminius]

Originally Posted by Frankenstipe

What makes you so sure that the next kind of energy we can use in place of oil will not need to be conserved?

There is no such thing as free unlimited energy, we don't live in comic books, everything comes at a price.

I didn't say it would be free. I said the best solution is one that doesn't need to be conserved and is not expensive. There are all sorts of energies that don't need to be conserved (e.g., nuclear [with qualifications], solar, geothermal, wind, biomass, ethanol from uneatable plants, 1 trillion hamsters on a treadmill, Aquaman and Wonder Woman), some of which can be less expensive than others.

[metroschultz]

I have been following and enjoying this thread greatly.
Has anyone here got a million dollars in the bank?
Me niether.
However, the people in the U.S. who may have the smallest carbon footprint do.
The Amish.
No Lights, No computers, No Motorcars,
Not a single luxury,
and therefore no payments to Big Oil.
Just a thought,
I would love to be "Off the Grid" so to speak.
And as I work toward that goal, I spend less on energy, and save more in my IRA.
My family is another matter entirely.
But I am attempting to convince them as well.
OPEC be damned
I will not be able to entirely give up my energy wants, but I can reduce them greatly.
S.

[Arminius]

I got my daughter hooked on saving gas. She was teasing me about beeing a geek and having a "computer" (Scanguage) on my dash. I let her tease me for a while and then asked her if I would be as funny if it helped me get 45 mpg. She said, "No, that would be cool!" so I shifted into neutral and coasted for a mile, and the guage stayed around 175 mpg. Her eyes got really big and then she started asking me if she could borrow it. Her goal is to get 40 mpg on her Focus.

I finished that trip with 51.5 average.

[Frankenstipe]

^Nice.

[Bror Jace]

Bravo to Lost Cause for asking some really fundamental and difficult questions about why things are the way they are and why we do the things we do.

Another “Bravo” to Duffman and hvatum for answering these difficult questions quite well. It’s nice to see learned people take time to teach someone they don’t even know about a difficult subject. A corresponding big “Booh!” to our school system for not addressing these economic principles a step at a time beginning in early grade school.

Just so you know, Lost Cause, many feel it’s impossible to be truly enlightened without going through a period in your life when you question everything around you. You seem to be at that point now. Don’t worry, if you don’t do anything crazy (self destructive) you’ll get through it and be a much better person as a result. As Obi-Wan said to Luke Skywalker: “You’ve just taken your first step into a much larger world.”

I loved the bit about improving life through the consumption of resources. Of course, it really isn’t that way (as already pointed out) but it gave me a chuckle and reminded me of the saying about higher education: The longer you stay in school, the more you know about less and less … until eventually you know everything about nothing.

That’s the great thing about freedom. Lost Cause, we can choose whether we want to be the hot shot billionaire on wall street or instead leave a very simple life like the Amish … or one of about a million degrees in between.

To add one bitty factoid to the end of the discussion. People’s life expectancy keeps going up as we pursue wealth and technology ... even if it doesn’t seem that way sometimes. The people with the most disposable income have the longest lives. If having a long life means a great deal to you (as it does most people) then that’s something to consider.

However, the fact that we in this age are as prosperous as we are also means that we have the luxury of sitting around and thinking of the meaning of life. That’s another form of wealth that may mean something to you.

Don’t worry about trying to figure it all out in one day, one week or one year. Some people go their whole lives and they don’t get nearly where you are right now.