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Old 06-08-2015, 02:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
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I have been on trailer towing sites looking for comments on how to get better mpg while towing a trailer and they seem fairly clueless about aerodynamics. About all they can tell you is drive slower. I typically do only about 62 mph if conditions warrant it. Slower in head winds or side winds. I once got over 15 mpg towing Apex with the 4 Runner with a nice tail wind. But 12 mpg is my baseline I am looking for improvement on.

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Old 06-11-2015, 10:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
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Bought some fiberglass cloth yesterday and we doped the outside of one panel. Having never done this kind of work yesterday you could say I lost my fiberglass virginity. Feels good though. It got to hot out to continue work as it was in the 80 F by 11 AM. So we put off further work until Thursday morning.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
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Got up early this morning to beat the heat. The night time low was 69 F. We got the inside surface of the closer panel done. It is the one with the space blocks on it. The far panel has one more side to do. Tomorrow we will get it done and then They can be painted over the weekend.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 484 Times in 250 Posts
If I were to use 12 mpg as a baseline 13 mpg would be a 7.7% improvement. At $2.699 a gallon (current price) it would cost me $22.49 per 100 miles at 12 mpg. It would cost $20.76 per 100 miles at 13 mpg. Savings $1.73 per 100 miles. Our coming trip to Roper Lake SP in AZ is 448 miles which would amount to a savings of $7.75 at 13 mpg. This mpg improvement amounts to reduction in HP to do 62 mph from 62.65 RHP to 57.83 RHP for a 4.82 RHP reduction. This is speculative of course as I have yet to gather the data. Gathering baseline data will take a while.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If you fit those two pieces together do they make a rectangle smaller or larger than 2x8'?

What level of finish will you go to? What my folks used to do was pour resin behind a sheet of Mylar plastic, squeegie it out, let it cure, and peel the Mylar off. It can bring up low spots fast and leave a gloss finish.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 484 Times in 250 Posts
Sorry, this is my first time doing fiberglass so no fancy stuff here. I am after a rigid durable paint able surface here. Together they are 27x74 inches.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
I have been on trailer towing sites looking for comments on how to get better mpg while towing a trailer and they seem fairly clueless about aerodynamics. About all they can tell you is drive slower. I typically do only about 62 mph if conditions warrant it. Slower in head winds or side winds. I once got over 15 mpg towing Apex with the 4 Runner with a nice tail wind. But 12 mpg is my baseline I am looking for improvement on.
Yeah, I hate to tell you I'm about the only one out there. Not that there aren't others with interest. But "camping" precludes any serious thinking, which is that "fun" seems to a mindless thing. Look at the phrase, "making memories" . . where's this s%^+ come from?

The short version is annual fuel budget. Annual miles. What is the change to the fuel budget for vacation miles? Even if RVers kept records, fuel isn't that high a cost primarily as they don't care about solo miles either. There is no interest in starting to decrease the solo mile cost for fuel so as to underwrite towing miles.

The two subgroups genuinely interested in RV fuel economy are those on fixed incomes (retired and/or disabled) and those who call themselves workcampers. This group (and yours truly) wants the longest life at lowest cost. Greatest distance so as to be able to travel between assignments, etc.

Fuel is about one half the daily cost of travel averaged out. Some boondocking, and some campsites with full hookups. Fuel is overhead, not optional.


And, are you sure you want a 5er? The lifetime is no better (roughly a decade) and they're top heavy. Don't tow as well as is assumed. The really well built ones need a DRW truck or bigger.

Nash Mfg is where I'd start looking. Arctic Fox or Desert Fox. Read Steve Rankins posts on Woodalls and his own site for value on that brand.

But a Bigfoot conventional trailer and TD tow vehicle would be a bulletproof approach. Very good value, used.

Obviously, Airstream. Ten years old is not old. My Silver Streak is "old" at twenty five years in the sense that the wearing items need to be redone. Etc. but no where near worn out. A 200k mile trailer versus the notmal 60,000 miles for a conventional.

A ten year old A/S is at the sweet point of depreciation and age. The best of both. Your current truck can pull a 25' and even larger with sensible loading. The "wide bodies" made since the late nineties are more of a good thing.

And the mechanical baseline of any of these still need to be verified. None of them come brand new with an accurate alignment. And all have unequal weight on each of the four tires. Etc.

One has a tremendous amount of expense to make a conventionally manufactured trailer a decent vehicle to tow. They are much more expensive in the long run.
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2004.0 DODGE Ram QC/LB 2500 2WD/NV-5600 305/555 ISB. 7,940-lb. Stock. 200,000 miles/5000-hrs @ 40-mph average.
1990 35' Silver Streak TT 7,900-lb.
11-cpm solo & 19-cpm towing; 21-mpg average past 54k-miles
Sold: 1983 Silver Streak 3411

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Old 06-11-2015, 10:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
I have been on trailer towing sites looking for comments on how to get better mpg while towing a trailer and they seem fairly clueless about aerodynamics. About all they can tell you is drive slower. I typically do only about 62 mph if conditions warrant it. Slower in head winds or side winds. I once got over 15 mpg towing Apex with the 4 Runner with a nice tail wind. But 12 mpg is my baseline I am looking for improvement on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
If I were to use 12 mpg as a baseline 13 mpg would be a 7.7% improvement. At $2.699 a gallon (current price) it would cost me $22.49 per 100 miles at 12 mpg. It would cost $20.76 per 100 miles at 13 mpg. Savings $1.73 per 100 miles. Our coming trip to Roper Lake SP in AZ is 448 miles which would amount to a savings of $7.75 at 13 mpg. This mpg improvement amounts to reduction in HP to do 62 mph from 62.65 RHP to 57.83 RHP for a 4.82 RHP reduction. This is speculative of course as I have yet to gather the data. Gathering baseline data will take a while.
23-cpm versus 21-cpm. About ten percent. It'd make me happy!!

448-miles at a travel speed of 58-mph is 7.75-hrs. With a fifteen minute safety break at the two hour mark (110-120 miles), and a one hour break at the four hour mark (220-240 miles) and another fifteen minute break at the six hour mark (325-350 miles) plan these stops using whatever combination of rest areas or other that appeals. The one hour break is where to refuel and take a meal even if they are a few miles apart.

The ideal spot is

In the same direction of travel

Has easy ingress and egress for a combined rig (check overhead satellite view)

Is beyond any traffic control devices to re-enter highway.

Has parking that allows that easy egress without much steering input.

When I follow this I can occasionally lose only tenths from my trip average when towing. Always when solo.

I set the cruise control using rpm versus speed.

That's the norm as I do it were I on your r trip. But I do think it's fair you not begin the test until you're more than an hour down the road to account for full op temp on vehicle and tire stability. Just note the number of acceleration and deceleration events (entering and exiting highway for the most part).

The safety breaks are par for the course. 80% fuel range on a EB F-150 with 26-gl tank at 12-mpg is 250-miles. If one made the two fifteen minute breaks at hours two and six the refuel points I know I'd find it a good test. That they coincide with range is lagniappe.
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2004.0 DODGE Ram QC/LB 2500 2WD/NV-5600 305/555 ISB. 7,940-lb. Stock. 200,000 miles/5000-hrs @ 40-mph average.
1990 35' Silver Streak TT 7,900-lb.
11-cpm solo & 19-cpm towing; 21-mpg average past 54k-miles
Sold: 1983 Silver Streak 3411

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Old 06-12-2015, 11:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Ford XLT Naked - '14 Ford F-150 XLT
90 day: 15.04 mpg (US)

Ford G-4 with Stinger - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Ford Stealth G-4 - '14 Ford F-150 4X4 Super Crew XLT
90 day: 17.69 mpg (US)

XLT Towing Keystone 5th wheel trailer - '14 Ford Keystone 5th Wheel XLT
90 day: 8.04 mpg (US)

Trip 2015 C Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SWP
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)

Local 120 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C-Max Energy SEL
90 day: 55.65 mpg (US)

Local 240 volt 2015 C-Max Energi - '15 Ford C Max Energi SLE
90 day: 57.63 mpg (US)

Energi IC only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 32.67 mpg (US)

Energi EV Only - '15 Ford C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 115.33 mpg (US)

Energi Combined - '15 C Max Energi Leather
90 day: 58.31 mpg (US)

Ford Explorer - '20 Ford Explorer XLT
90 day: 24.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 484 Times in 250 Posts


This is the latest work as of Friday morning. After it dries (panel left) we will clean up the edges, flip it, and glue blocks to the other side. Then they will be ready for primer then paint in the morning.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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