Can EV's be fun?

[Isaac Zachary]

• Yes?
• Instant torque
• Better acceleration
• Fuel from home
• Can be made to sound and drive like a sporty ICEV

• No?
• No manual transmissions
• Heavy vehicle driving characteristics
• Mechanical customizability looks bleak
• So far, a seemingly lack of nitty gritty tech specs that are available or lack of comprehension by the car enthusiast croud.
• Sounds and driving characteristics that are like an ICEV are fake
• Limited models thus far, with pessimism that some have been layed to rest, or will be layed to rest (i.e. Sportswagen)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZR3FM2ENMM

What are your thoughts?

[JSH]

Yes, EVs are fun. It is all about the instant torque - EVs have the torque band that ICE design engineers have been trying to obtain for a century.

I thought the lack of a manual transmission might be a negative - especially on a motorcycle - but I didn't miss it at all. With an EV you are always in the right "gear" so you can focus on hitting the apex just right and not worry about running out of RPM before the exit.

Yes, EVs are heavy but the weight is low and centered which help lower the center of gravity and reduce the polar moment of inertia.


Both of my EVs (Spark EV and Bolt EV) have been fun to drive on a twisty road.

[cowmeat]

I have to say my Volt is pretty fun to drive even after three years, and I tend to get bored with cars pretty quickly.
Ruby has better pick up than any car I've driven since a 71 Cutlass I owned in the early 80's. The instant torque in EVs does make a noticeable difference and I have tons of passing power when I need it.

[freebeard]

It's an architectural problem. There is one manufacturer that has found a solution that put Fun in it's name. And they have proliferated five models on their basic chassis

• FUV
• Deliverator
• Rapid Responder
• Roadster
• Flatbed
• Smoke Jumper

That last one is a fire truck!

Were I to luck into an FUV, it would be reskinned with an aluminum Art Deco nose, boat tail and wheel pants. Like Randy Grubb's Decopods. With a cyclopean headlight.

[Autobahnschleicher]

Just like any other vehicle, they can be designed to be fun or they can be boring.
Just like any other car, they can be designed with tuning in mind or not.

Probably one of the more fun EVs is the original Tesla Roadster (the electric Elise).
And maybe at some point my MR2 might become electric as well.
However these cars are not fun because of how they are powered, but because of their driving dynamics.
Accelleration on its own gets boring rather quickly, I prefer twisty roads or race tracks.
That feeling when you're ballancing your car at the limit with the throttle when exiting a corner and it's at the edge of its grip on all four tires to slingshot onto the next straight is just awesome.

Some heavy SUV powered by an electric drivetrain however would be pretty boring, but so would a SUV powered by an ICE.

It's not the engine that makes a car fun, it's the car and its handling that makes a car fun.
Sadly many modern cars are heavy and feel numb, but that's not an EV issue, that's a modern car issue.
Overly strong electronic power steering, overboosted brakes, soft suspension and a gazillion electronic nannies make them boring.

[freebeard]

The [original] Tesla Roadster is awfully close to a conversion.

Agreed about vehicle dynamics. The candidate I proposed have a low CG, low unsprung weight, an electric rack for low-speed control, and has added torque vectoring since I've driven one.

I'd add ingress/egress. I have to put my elbow on the windshield to lever myself into and out of the XFi. The FUV step-over height is less than my bicycle.

Also -- The sweet spot between a motor scooter and a cage. It's called the 'upper frame' instead of roll cage because lawyers. What isn't open is aerodynamically optimized to shed rain water.

[Autobahnschleicher]

Originally Posted by freebeard

The [original]
Agreed about vehicle dynamics. The candidate I proposed have a low CG, low unsprung weight, an electric rack for low-speed control, and has added torque vectoring since I've driven one.

For a fun oriented EV, I'd go with a transverse mid/rear engined roadster, a ~30 kWh battery pack, multilink rear suspension, MacPherson strut or dual whishbone front suspension and 60% of the weight on the rear axle.
This would allow a weight of about 1000 kg if done right. (done the math for converting my MR2)
For a fun oriented vehicle, I'd not use torque vectoring, but go for a torsen differential and skip electric power steering in favor of a manual steering rack.
A manual rack here would not require much strength as the car would only have about 400 kg on the front axle, but it would provide great feedback.
As for the battery, I would go with a T-shaped pack, fitting partialy in the (rear) engine bay as well as into the "gearbox tunnel".

But that's just how I'd do it

[freebeard]

I have, on one hand, a Lexus rear axle that has 68hp at 98lb and is a single-speed 10K RPM unit.

On the other, a[n untitled] 1958 VW Beetle that's been cut for a Baja bug. I calculate I could have a decent-sized battery pack and not exceed the vehicles original weight.



I have no idea where the money would come from.

[Autobahnschleicher]

I do plan on converting my MR2 at some point in the (probably far) future.
However in that case I'd probably keep the transaxle for sake of simplicity and the torsen differential inside of it.
All new custom driveshafts, a new torsen differential and so on would make things rather complicated and even more expensive.
In 5-10 years prices for batteries, electric motors, controllers and chargers should come down further and maybe some parts can be harvested from crashed cars.

[freebeard]

The Lexus axle has Toyota hubs that wold need to mate to the VW trailing arms. And I've become disillusioned with the open differential. A Torsen diff would be a big plus.

OTOH I know people at Arcimoto and I've asked them if I could just get a complete FUV drive train and suspension, turn it around and mate it to the VW frame horns. That would give twin motors and torque vectoring. The part would cost 60% of the MSRP, but I might have a better chance of getting someone else to help.

They use the same 145R-15 on 4x100 PCI, the same as the Beetle. There would be zero weight overhanging the reart axle line, but the front axle would be moved forward 8" using an aluminum dune buggy part. 3" longer and wider rear trailing arms.

Something like this:


That angle doesn't show the boat tail.