The Challenge: MPG, are you up to it or not!!!

[dogg38]

Oh, i didn't understand you, maybe this was the link i was thinking of;

Vapor Carburetor History - 01/31/99

KeelyNet 2009 - Free Energy / Gravity Control / Electronic Health / Alternative Science - 01/01/09

[dogg38]

I wonder why it is ol Smokey, wasn't on the right track. Why he be inducted into SEMA Hall of Fame

SEMA Hall of Fame

[Christ]

Originally Posted by dogg38

Oh, i didn't understand you, maybe this was the link i was thinking of;

Vapor Carburetor History - 01/31/99

KeelyNet 2009 - Free Energy / Gravity Control / Electronic Health / Alternative Science - 01/01/09

KeelyNet hosts some pretty ridiculous papers and drawings, just so you know. I doubt if anyone here would readily accept them as a source of much of anything, other than a pirate source for documenting "Pat's $1,000,000 DVD on how to create and market snake oil".

Smokey may have been on the right track, and noone has said that he isn't. He was a very smart man, no doubt. That notwithstanding, you need to open your insight to other research as well. Following one person, scientist, mechanic, or otherwise, will not give you knowledge. It will only give you ideas, and as many have said, your intuition is usually your worst enemy when you're trying to learn.

Not all things are as they seem.

[dogg38]

Hey, all you Smokey Yunick fans, c'mon down to the next Amelia Island Concours de Elegance. Go back to the future an see Smokey Yunick Vapor powered DeLorean from the Brumos Porsche Collection.

Smokey Yunick Vapor powered DeLorean - Page 2 - DMCTalk.com forums - A DeLorean Community

[dogg38]

Smokey Yunick to be inducted to the SEMA Hall of Fame, August 2009.

SEMA Hall of Fame Pays Tribute to Three Pioneers | Specialty Equipment Market Association

[pgfpro]

Smokey Yunick was a great developer for his time.

But what is the question your asking? I'm not understanding what your after?

[dogg38]

First things first, thanks for the insightful comment's and discussion.

Let me come at this another way. Take your basic premise improving fuel economy of your daily driver. You've covered all basics already tune-up, tire pressure so on so forth. I myself would start like this:

1.) reduce wheel dia. and mount lower profile tires within reason to lower the relative effective gear ratio of the rear-end or trans-axle. this may also improve aerodynamics too, by lowering ride height.

2.) better air filter

3.) on the exhaust side; header(s), free flowing catalytic converter, muffler

4.) replace camshaft with one that develops torque at earlier rpm range ( they used to call RV grinds )

5.) have automatic trans modified or replace with manual unit

6.) lower rear-end or trans-axle gear ratio ( example: 3.73:1 to 3.42:1 or 2.73:1 ), keep in mind a lower gear ratio requires more torque, but that's where the smaller dia. wheel and tire package really helps out

7.) install a second battery, battery selector switch, alternator cutout switch, and a solar cell battery charger, ( most of these item's preferable marine grade, deep cycle hold a charge longer, selector switch should be able either battery, both or off, also acts theft deterrent, alternator cutout should be rated twice the ampere output, and suitable fused )

8.) now lets add a gauge package: vacuum, amp, second voltmeter, fuel pressure, and transmission temp. ( vacuum can be labeled fuel economy, amp lets you know the batteries state of charge or discharge, should be selectable to either battery or wire in a second one, and transmission temp. helps with peace of mind whether auto or manual, after pricey mods )

9.) lets improve lubrication: aftermarket oil coolers for engine and trans, even additional engine, plus trans fluid filter.

10.) if equipped to handle E85, change fuel system components: aftermarket fuel cell, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel line (combination stainless steel and flexible braided), aftermarket fuel delivery components rated to handle E85

note; there have been a couple of published studies done on the effects lower grades ethanol blends on non E85 equipped vehicles

11.) suitable used laptop with software to benchmark, monitor, and troubleshoot:

12.) enhanced driving techniques for r & d to pull it altogether

Future mods would most likely include engine rebuild, balance and blueprint, rework, port match and bench-flow heads

That should be enough for most average modders to handle.

P. S. Oh, I almost forgot the intake system, stay tuned got to get some sleep for 2nd shift. Keep on wrenchin, let know what you think.

[dcb]

Hey Dog, I have to appreciate the enthusiasm I'm not exactly sure where you are headed or how you are getting there but let me offer some responses:


1.) reduce wheel dia. and mount lower profile tires within reason to lower the relative effective gear ratio of the rear-end or trans-axle. this may also improve aerodynamics too, by lowering ride height.

Cutting the springs may be a cost effective option for reducing ride height too. Taller skinnier tires is a way to get a little more ratio without swapping gears.


2.) better air filter

Probably no good, least not on a fuel injected or feedback carb setup. I know Darin has researched it.


3.) on the exhaust side; header(s), free flowing catalytic converter, muffler

Again, this is not money you would be spending for economy.


4.) replace camshaft with one that develops torque at earlier rpm range ( they used to call RV grinds )

Might be able to advance the existing cam (or just the intake one) too by modifying the cam gear/sprocket slightly, and doing a lot of head scratching.


5.) have automatic trans modified or replace with manual unit

+1 on a manual swap, enables even more reliability and efficiency and enhanced techniques. Otherwise might be good to be able to force high gear and lockup at lower speeds with a switch or something.


6.) lower rear-end or trans-axle gear ratio ( example: 3.73:1 to 3.42:1 or 2.73:1 ), keep in mind a lower gear ratio requires more torque, but that's where the smaller dia. wheel and tire package really helps out

Your 85 'murrican block is silly with torque already 2.73 if you can find one for cheap, and do some aeromods to compliment it.

7.) install a second battery, battery selector switch, alternator cutout switch, and a solar cell battery charger, ( most of these item's preferable marine grade, deep cycle hold a charge longer, selector switch should be able either battery, both or off, also acts theft deterrent, alternator cutout should be rated twice the ampere output, and suitable fused )

I use a trolling battery (not trolling/starting) on a 1.9 liter saturn with no probs, you might get away with it, but not a top of the list thing.


8.) now lets add a gauge package: vacuum, amp, second voltmeter, fuel pressure, and transmission temp. ( vacuum can be labeled fuel economy, amp lets you know the batteries state of charge or discharge, should be selectable to either battery or wire in a second one, and transmission temp. helps with peace of mind whether auto or manual, after pricey mods )

You can probably do much better than a vacuum gauge for fuel feedback these days

9.) lets improve lubrication: aftermarket oil coolers for engine and trans, even additional engine, plus trans fluid filter.

Not for efficiency, you should be making less heat once you relearn how to drive again

10.) if equipped to handle E85, change fuel system components: aftermarket fuel cell, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel line (combination stainless steel and flexible braided), aftermarket fuel delivery components rated to handle E85

note; there have been a couple of published studies done on the effects lower grades ethanol blends on non E85 equipped vehicles

If you are so inclined, sure.



11.) suitable used laptop with software to benchmark, monitor, and troubleshoot:

Go for it, where you gonna get your data? Don't know if you are aldl or not, or fuel injected or not for that matter.


12.) enhanced driving techniques for r & d to pull it altogether

Actually I would START there See what other people are getting in similiar vehicles in similiar conditions.


Future mods would most likely include engine rebuild, balance and blueprint, rework, port match and bench-flow heads

Not a big gainer for low rpm work.

l8r

[pgfpro]

First things first, thanks for the insightful comment's and discussion.

Let me come at this another way. Take your basic premise improving fuel economy of your daily driver. You've covered all basics already tune-up, tire pressure so on so forth. I myself would start like this:

1.) reduce wheel dia. and mount lower profile tires within reason to lower the relative effective gear ratio of the rear-end or trans-axle. this may also improve aerodynamics too, by lowering ride height.
My car is 2" lower then stock. Its a pain getting in and out of but helps with the aero.
2.) better air filter
I'm running a after market air cleaner.

3.) on the exhaust side; header(s), free flowing catalytic converter, muffler
I'm running a aftermarket free flowing exhaust system with a e cut out.

4.) replace camshaft with one that develops torque at earlier rpm range ( they used to call RV grinds )
I'm running a performance vtec cam. It has a low profile and high profile.
5.) have automatic trans modified or replace with manual unit
manual trans

6.) lower rear-end or trans-axle gear ratio ( example: 3.73:1 to 3.42:1 or 2.73:1 ), keep in mind a lower gear ratio requires more torque, but that's where the smaller dia. wheel and tire package really helps out
This is where I could see some improvements at freeway speed is to bring my rpm down some.
7.) install a second battery, battery selector switch, alternator cutout switch, and a solar cell battery charger, ( most of these item's preferable marine grade, deep cycle hold a charge longer, selector switch should be able either battery, both or off, also acts theft deterrent, alternator cutout should be rated twice the ampere output, and suitable fused )I need to look into this also.
8.) now lets add a gauge package: vacuum, amp, second voltmeter, fuel pressure, and transmission temp. ( vacuum can be labeled fuel economy, amp lets you know the batteries state of charge or discharge, should be selectable to either battery or wire in a second one, and transmission temp. helps with peace of mind whether auto or manual, after pricey mods )I'm running a boost vac gauge and my efi software lets me monitor all these things. So that's a plus.
9.) lets improve lubrication: aftermarket oil coolers for engine and trans, even additional engine, plus trans fluid filter. I still need to take advantage of this.

10.) if equipped to handle E85, change fuel system components: aftermarket fuel cell, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel line (combination stainless steel and flexible braided), aftermarket fuel delivery components rated to handle E85

note; there have been a couple of published studies done on the effects lower grades ethanol blends on non E85 equipped vehicles I'm running after market fuel rail and fuel lines to help with the e85 when I race the car.11.) suitable used laptop with software to benchmark, monitor, and troubleshoot:I'm running Neptune efi software

12.) enhanced driving techniques for r & d to pull it altogether Working on driving skills.
Future mods would most likely include engine rebuild, balance and blueprint, rework, port match and bench-flow heads My engine is built with a ton of mods.
That should be enough for most average modders to handle.

P. S. Oh, I almost forgot the intake system, stay tuned got to get some sleep for 2nd shift. Keep on wrenchin, let know what you think.

Thanks for the input. I think my biggest gains now will be all aero.